If Whole Foods were to open a store in Fort Washington/Oxon Hill/National harbor where would it be (Silver Spring: to buy, movie theater)

[CBMD]

Originally Posted by North Beach Person

In Prince Frederick you have Giant, Food Lion and Safeway close enough to walk between within 5 minutes (if you can dodge the cars on RTE 4). Food Lion is the weak sister of the three.

You have the Giant at Marlboro Crossroads, a Food Lion across 301 from that, a Safeway (brand new rebuild) 3 or 4 miles down the road at Croom Road with a Food Lion a couple miles further on at Marlton.

I've already expressed my views (not good) on that new Safeway at 301/Croom on the first page of this thread.

Food Lion and Safeway are the weak links. Safeway was recently bought by Albertson's. Last week they abruptly closed 11 stores out west. Maybe more to come? May eventually see that on the east coast too.

A couple of months ago Food Lion sold 66 stores in Pittsburgh & Philly to Aldi.

[CBMD]

Originally Posted by adelphi_sky

The Giant in Hyattsvile at PG Plaza may get shut down....hopefully. A brand new 55k sqft Safeway is being built a quarter of mile up the street. I think the Giant may be up for redevelopment in the next few years being so close to the metro. At 55k sqft, the Safeway is plenty big enough to serve the density without needing Giant across the street.

Looking into the future, the Safeway remains while the Giant is gone. does anyone have examples of two different grocery stores coexisting across the street from each other?

Not much need for a WFM round the corner either then, I expect.

Not across the street from each other, but how about four grocery stores next door to each other on Route 1 in Laurel all in about one mile.

From north to south......an old Giant, a new Harris Teeter, and old Safeway, and a newish Shoppers. You can access the first three without ever going out on R1 the three centers are connected, and the Shoppers is in the next center after the Safeway about 0.5m south. So much for "out there" in Laurel.

[adelphi_sky]

Originally Posted by CBMD

Not much need for a WFM round the corner either then, I expect.

Not across the street from each other, but how about four grocery stores next door to each other on Route 1 in Laurel all in about one mile.

From north to south......an old Giant, a new Harris Teeter, and old Safeway, and a newish Shoppers. You can access the first three without ever going out on R1 the three centers are connected, and the Shoppers is in the next center after the Safeway about 0.5m south. So much for "out there" in Laurel.

Technically, they say the WFM serves a "food desert". Which it sorta does being that downtown college park has no grocery store within two miles. That's a lot of density, when UMD is in session, with no full-service grocer within a mile. In addition, there will be additional density built into the project that WFM is located. Not only that, if you go toward DC on RT. 1 through Mount Rainier past the DC line, there is no other grocer. YES! Organic doesn't count.

I just don't see the need in two grocery stores across the street from each other. In laurel's case, that is just insane. Yet, apparently, there is enough density to support them as as they all have not shut down.

It will be interesting to see how things shake out with the Giant in Hyattsville as Safeway and WFM come online.

In the end, I think the market can support a WFM in Southern PGC. Especially if they feel Riverdale Park can support one. It's a no-brainer

[Mr Beco]

Originally Posted by G1..

lets not forget Giant is about to get a big boost once the Food Lion merger goes through .

Cleaner stores? Employees that don't smoke?

[G1..]

Originally Posted by adelphi_sky

Technically, they say the WFM serves a "food desert". Which it sorta does being that downtown college park has no grocery store within two miles. That's a lot of density, when UMD is in session, with no full-service grocer within a mile. In addition, there will be additional density built into the project that WFM is located. Not only that, if you go toward DC on RT. 1 through Mount Rainier past the DC line, there is no other grocer. YES! Organic doesn't count.

I just don't see the need in two grocery stores across the street from each other. In laurel's case, that is just insane. Yet, apparently, there is enough density to support them as as they all have not shut down.

It will be interesting to see how things shake out with the Giant in Hyattsville as Safeway and WFM come online.

In the end, I think the market can support a WFM in Southern PGC. Especially if they feel Riverdale Park can support one. It's a no-brainer

In Brandywine on 301 south just outside of Waldorf you have one shopping center and a Target ,Safeway and a Costco ,with an Aldi across the street with the real threat of a "super Walmart" maybe a 1/2 mile down the road very soon .

[armory]

Originally Posted by CBMD

I believe the chances of an WFM at OH/FW/NH are less than zero, at least while Westphalia remains unresolved. And even then I think Harris Teeter, Wegmans, Giant, in that order are much more likely at Westphalia.

The new WFM in Columbia has only 10 checkouts. The old WFM in SS has upgraded to 18 checkouts. That's all you need to know.

Was in the new Safeway facing 301, at the intersection of Croom and Osborne roads. It's the pits. Lighting that's 30 years out of date. Big cracks in the concrete floor right in front of the checkouts. Bizzaro!

Go to a Giant, Safeway or Food Lion and look at their offerings. You won't find a huge variety. How will a WF survive when the majority of the population aren't looking for what WF offers? Not to say they won't change their shopping habits but perhaps price is a factor.

[armory]

Originally Posted by adelphi_sky

I wouldn't say that we won't see expansion. There are still stores opening up all over the place. They are still signing leases in the DC metro area. They just announced a lease for 70k sqft in Tysons.

I do agree that competition is heating up in the organic market space and that WFM needs to lower their price point.

I haven't really seen Wal-Mart's organic selection and when shopping at Safeway and Giant, their organic selections aren't as expansive as WFM. In addition, WFM offers a more unique product line for those who tend to cook more dynamic and unique dishes from scratch. They offer ingredients you usually can't find in a lower tier grocery store. This is from cuts of meat to cheeses. The only other store that can compete on that level is Wegmans. But not all foods in Wegmans is considered organic. Though they offer the unique products, those products may bot be organic or natural.

Therefore I think there is still a market out there for WFM. But an increasingly smaller one. As the first article pointed out, there are only so many affluent neighborhoods left that can support a WFM at its historical price point.

As far as where in Oxon Hill/Ft. Washington/national Harbor would WFM fit? I think it would be Oxon Hill on Oxon Hill Rd. North of the 210 interchange. Specifically in or near the shopping center with the movie theater. National Harbor is too hard to get in and out of, doesn't offer preferred parking that WFM desires, and doesn't have the 24/7 density. People go to National Harbor to have a good time, not shop for groceries.

Putting them at the shopping center puts them on a major road. Affords them the space to have their own parking, and provides better density in terms of free-flowing traffic along a major route while still being close enough to National Harbor and FT. Washington.

Here is a story a few years back asking about WFM at the BLVD.

Largo is transit-ready for Whole Foods - Greater Greater Washington

North...Eastover? Seriously?

The shopping center with the movie theater is east of 210, NH is west and FW is south on 210.

Whole Foods might do some business - specialty items - but most will stick to the existing stores on a price point alone. Trader Joe's is a glorified 7-11 in many respects and the reasons why have already been given. It is a dressed up convenience store with a limited offering. You may be able to pick up tonight's meal there but, you might be pressed to pick up a week's worth of groceries there.

[adelphi_sky]

Originally Posted by armory

Whole Foods might do some business - specialty items - but most will stick to the existing stores on a price point alone.

You're making the assumption that people who want quality foods and are willing to pay a higher price for them won't. If that's the case, Whole Foods wouldn't be in business. Are you saying that everywhere Whole Foods doesn't currently exist, people will never choose to shop there because they will continue to shop at existing stores? What would Whole Foods Market's expansion model look like 25 years ago if that was the case?

People think Whole Foods is boutique like Balduccis. It's really not that expensive. They have their own store brand products that are within the price ranges of other stores like Giant and Safeway. The items that will get you in trouble is meat, seafood, and some produce. Their hot/cold food par is worth the price. Have you seen the hot bars at Giant and Safeway?

Whole Foods isn't in the business of making unwise location decisions. What do people in FT. Washington and Oxon Hill want? How many do travel to Whole Foods in Alexandria? If Whole Foods said there was a market in Ft. Washington, would they be wrong?

I know I travel to Silver Spring. Which means if there was one closer, I'd go to that one.

[North Beach Person]

If you look at some of the analyses I posted awhile ago, one of the problems is the reputation of being Whole Paycheck. Yes, its store brands are comparable in price to Giant and Safeway, but to name brands there, not store brands.

[adelphi_sky]

Originally Posted by North Beach Person

If you look at some of the analyses I posted awhile ago, one of the problems is the reputation of being Whole Paycheck. Yes, its store brands are comparable in price to Giant and Safeway, but to name brands there, not store brands.

I agree. People are paying a premium who shop there for the most part. But at 200+ stores and counting, there are a lot of people who think it is worth it. I shop at the one in Silver Spring and it is always packed. And Silver Spring isn't necessarily known for its millionaires. There are more millennials there than anything. Yet, I see them shopping there as well. Maybe not for a family of four, but the Whole Foods store there seems to be popular even though there is a Safeway a few blocks down the street and a Giant nearby. Whole Foods isn't the only grocery store in that area. But a lot of middle-income people still chose to spend their money there.

Trader Joe's on the other hand is the opposite. You have entire communities begging them to come, and they won't. I think that is interesting. I guess the more exclusive you make your product, the more people will want it. If that's the case, maybe Whole Foods should slow their growth and make people beg. lol