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Old 06-12-2017, 12:29 PM
 
Location: That star on your map in the middle of the East Coast, DMV
8,128 posts, read 7,558,075 times
Reputation: 5785

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodfo View Post
Great news !! Hopefully you're right !!


The sooner someone drives the final icepick into the zombie skull of this wasteful boondoggle, the better.

This whole thing was only a way to gank a good slurp off the federal teat, and rezone a few areas in the process. Complete disregard for fiscal sensibility in every way, shape and form - just a method to get federal $$ spent in MD.


Or...wait....we're supposed to believe that an above ground light rail that travels roughly the same speed as a bus in rush hour, but slower than the average non-rush-hour bus speed in counties of relevance.....is somehow worth billions of $$ ? Somehow people will be willing to pay MORE for this service than existing buses despite zero increase in either parking or performance ?


Now...once this travesty is naught but history, perhaps we can begin to explore ways that will actually reduce traffic and improve transportation in the region.
You just literally started an account to make this as your first post? LOL Without providing a viable alternative?
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Old 06-12-2017, 06:12 PM
 
Location: It's in the name!
7,083 posts, read 9,566,864 times
Reputation: 3780
Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodfo View Post
A viable alternative to a multi-billion dollar transportation project that provides absolutely no service not already provided by buses ? And that simply cannibalizes existing bus service ?

ANYTHING is a viable (better) alternative to this wasteful boondoggle. Doing nothing at all is a superior (viable) alternative.


How about this though - improve existing rail service at a fraction of the cost ? Make Metro cost effective...make parking for Metro cost effective. Take cars off the roads....don't just shift people from buses to a super-expensive slow above-ground rail line.
"Boondoggle" is the word used when someone has no logical or viable argument.

And as far as being all giddy over Frosh and his lawsuit, The funding is approved by Congress, NOT TRUMP. Let's all have a civic lesson boys and girls. Trump would have to make the Purple Line the SINGLE fight in NEXT fiscal year's budget battle. Congress is not going to go back and forth over the entire budget because of Trump's little schoolyard fight with Maryland. Everyone would see it for what it is and disregard any pettiness Trump could conceive.

But guess what ladies and gentlemen, Congress already allocated funds for this fiscal year and Trump signed off on it.

Trump will either resign or be impeached before the next budget battle in the fall. If not, I GUARANTEE you, getting back at Maryland and DC won't be his major concern. lol
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Old 06-12-2017, 07:52 PM
 
Location: Boston
20,101 posts, read 9,008,929 times
Reputation: 18752
The White House has proposed limiting transit construction aid to projects that already have full funding grant agreements. Maryland officials were four days away from signing such an agreement for about $900 million in federal aid in August. However, the federal government postponed the signing ceremony indefinitely Aug. 4, after a federal judge revoked the Purple Line’s environmental approval, which made it ineligible for federal funding. The court order was part of a ruling in a lawsuit opposing the rail plan.

Construction on the Purple Line was scheduled to start last fall but remains on hold as U.S. District Judge Richard J. Leon reconsiders his ruling. The Purple Line can’t get a federal funding agreement until the environmental approval is reinstated.

[Trump budget eliminates three post-9/11 airport security programs]

Under Trump’s plan, transit projects that don’t have a federal funding agreement “would be funded by the localities that use and benefit from these localized projects.”

Maryland officials have long said that the state can’t afford to build the $2 billion rail line unless the federal government covers nearly half of the construction costs.

there are plenty of worthy infrastructure projects all over the country, what's Maryland going to do for Trump ?

say bye bye Purple Line, take the Frosh bus ....

https://www.washingtonpost.com/local...4e0_story.html
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Old 06-13-2017, 08:03 AM
 
Location: It's in the name!
7,083 posts, read 9,566,864 times
Reputation: 3780
Quote:
Originally Posted by skeddy View Post
The White House has proposed limiting transit construction aid to projects that already have full funding grant agreements. Maryland officials were four days away from signing such an agreement for about $900 million in federal aid in August. However, the federal government postponed the signing ceremony indefinitely Aug. 4, after a federal judge revoked the Purple Line’s environmental approval, which made it ineligible for federal funding. The court order was part of a ruling in a lawsuit opposing the rail plan.

Construction on the Purple Line was scheduled to start last fall but remains on hold as U.S. District Judge Richard J. Leon reconsiders his ruling. The Purple Line can’t get a federal funding agreement until the environmental approval is reinstated.

[Trump budget eliminates three post-9/11 airport security programs]

Under Trump’s plan, transit projects that don’t have a federal funding agreement “would be funded by the localities that use and benefit from these localized projects.”

Maryland officials have long said that the state can’t afford to build the $2 billion rail line unless the federal government covers nearly half of the construction costs.

there are plenty of worthy infrastructure projects all over the country, what's Maryland going to do for Trump ?

say bye bye Purple Line, take the Frosh bus ....

https://www.washingtonpost.com/local...4e0_story.html
That article is from March 16th. Do you know how much has changed since then? Especially concerning the Purple Line. Congress APPROVED funding for the Purple Line this year and Trump SIGNED it. Does that sound like something that is being defunded? And if this court case gets overturned and the agreement is signed, the funds are locked in. The only way that agreement can be reversed and the funds stopped is by an act of Congress through normal budget negotiations. And guess what, if Congress approved it this year, it stands to reason that they will approve it next year. Why? Economic activity. Multiple companies and states are tied into these types of projects and if it means jobs and revenues in states other than MD, then more than a few reps in Congress will certainly be on board to fund it.
These things are a bit more complicated than simply paybacks by Mr. Trump. He is certainly finding this out the hard way. He needs Congress to help him target specific states that he doesn't like. And that is just not going to happen.


Imagine the precedent this would create. Why would any state want to enter into an agreement with the federal government if that funding was at the whim of ONE person? The markets would crash. Nobody would be able to rely on assurances from the government that they would follow through on their agreements.

And what people are proposing with Trump is tantamount to ransom. "Act nice towards me or I take your money away." We are far away from sinking that low as a nation.
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Old 06-13-2017, 09:26 AM
 
Location: It's in the name!
7,083 posts, read 9,566,864 times
Reputation: 3780
Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodfo View Post
Not really.

boon·dog·gle

noun
1.
work or activity that is wasteful or pointless but gives the appearance of having value.
"writing off the cold fusion phenomenon as a boondoggle best buried in literature"
verb

I'm very aware of the definition. Just because someone says the word doesn't make it true. It is a cop-out that is used when someone has no real argument against the actual data. I'd rather read a well-explained idea than just a word used with no explanation at all. Especially when the experts in the field are completely satisfied with the project's merits.

Quote:

We'll just have to endure a large amount of whining from people upset that MD didn't get a $900 million pull off the federal teat.
This statement always kills me. Every single private business exists and survives off of the government teat. So, let's do this. Every business for itself. No more government funding for research. No more tax breaks, no more government services such as infrastructures. Amazon, you want your stuff delivered? Build your own roads, airports, and bridges. Can't get your stuff delivered from overseas because of military conflict? Fight your own battles. Want to drill oil in that ocean good luck. Provide your own diplomacy to get drilling rights, etc. etc. etc.

Trade agreements? Businesses, you're on your own. Complaining that China is kicking your butts? Sorry, deal with it.

So when you say the state is pulling off the federal teat, it is in a VERY long line.
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Old 06-13-2017, 10:33 AM
 
Location: It's in the name!
7,083 posts, read 9,566,864 times
Reputation: 3780
Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodfo View Post
Oh OK. Seemed like you actually posted the incorrect meaning of the word.


It seems you've come unhinged. I guess missing out on that $900 million pull on the federal teat can do that to a person.


Don't worry though - this is actually better. The Purple Line was nonsense anyways. A legitimately wasteful.... boondoggle.... in every sense of the word. We can generate a superior result to it simply through increased service on Metro and buses, reduced fares on both, elimination of peak pricing for Metro, increased and lower cost parking for Metro, and an increased gas tax.


Sad for those who think as you do that.....we'll have to make some of these tough choices instead of just kicking the can down the road and rejoicing in a few thousand construction jobs that will be gone after a few years.

Don't worry though - you'll feel better soon. And you'll probably even realize I'm right.
lol Okay. Sure. I'm not worried at all. I never knew we had so many backward thinking individuals in this state. Sure, let's do everything on the cheap and watch other states around us continue to attract the top talent and top industries because we feel it is too expensive to do anything. Let's build wooden bridges and gravel roads while we're at it.

Other states have adopted light rail and seem to be doing just fine. NOVA is getting their Silver Line, they seem to be doing just fine. NYC has a stellar rail network. They could have gone with buses. But they didn't. Their rail network is so robust that a lot of individuals in NYC don't even have driver's licenses. There's no need to own a car in NYC.

Sure, let's go with buses! Woo hoo! That's real forward thinking right there folks!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Light_..._United_States
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Old 06-13-2017, 10:49 AM
 
2,192 posts, read 2,686,801 times
Reputation: 2601
Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodfo View Post
It seems you've come unhinged. I guess missing out on that $900 million pull on the federal teat can do that to a person.


Don't worry though - this is actually better. The Purple Line was nonsense anyways. A legitimately wasteful.... boondoggle.... in every sense of the word. We can generate a superior result to it simply through increased service on Metro and buses, reduced fares on both, elimination of peak pricing for Metro, increased and lower cost parking for Metro, and an increased gas tax.


Sad for those who think as you do that.....we'll have to make some of these tough choices instead of just kicking the can down the road and rejoicing in a few thousand construction jobs that will be gone after a few years.

Don't worry though - you'll feel better soon. And you'll probably even realize I'm right.
Your posts are ridiculous. You are perfectly entitled to the opinion that the project isn't worth the money, but it's absurd to claim the Purple Line isn't superior to current bus and rail service infrastructure in a number of areas. E.g., I regularly take the J-line between SS and Bethesda; it's obvious to anyone who has ever ridden or driven on East-West that a separated rail line would be many times faster than the stop-and-go of E-W traffic.

And, yes, $900M in federal funds being spent on MD infrastructure would be a good thing. And, yes, not throwing away the $800M in state/local funds already spent on the project would be a good thing. The options are: 1. Purple Line, 2. nothing. You seem to be pretending to yourself that the $1.7B in PL $$ could magically be repurposed.
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Old 06-13-2017, 10:51 AM
 
Location: Boston
20,101 posts, read 9,008,929 times
Reputation: 18752
Quote:
Originally Posted by adelphi_sky View Post
That article is from March 16th. Do you know how much has changed since then? Especially concerning the Purple Line. Congress APPROVED funding for the Purple Line this year and Trump SIGNED it. Does that sound like something that is being defunded? And if this court case gets overturned and the agreement is signed, the funds are locked in. The only way that agreement can be reversed and the funds stopped is by an act of Congress through normal budget negotiations. And guess what, if Congress approved it this year, it stands to reason that they will approve it next year. Why? Economic activity. Multiple companies and states are tied into these types of projects and if it means jobs and revenues in states other than MD, then more than a few reps in Congress will certainly be on board to fund it.
These things are a bit more complicated than simply paybacks by Mr. Trump. He is certainly finding this out the hard way. He needs Congress to help him target specific states that he doesn't like. And that is just not going to happen.


Imagine the precedent this would create. Why would any state want to enter into an agreement with the federal government if that funding was at the whim of ONE person? The markets would crash. Nobody would be able to rely on assurances from the government that they would follow through on their agreements.

And what people are proposing with Trump is tantamount to ransom. "Act nice towards me or I take your money away." We are far away from sinking that low as a nation.

it's funded through September this year
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Old 06-13-2017, 11:59 AM
 
Location: Boston
20,101 posts, read 9,008,929 times
Reputation: 18752
there are plenty of worthwhile infrastructure projects needed all over the country, denying Maryland the Purple Line can be easily justified.
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Old 06-13-2017, 01:52 PM
 
Location: It's in the name!
7,083 posts, read 9,566,864 times
Reputation: 3780
Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodfo View Post
Ouch.

Almost any direct rail line between two points would end up being superior to existing methods of transit. Should we build one from the corner of my block to the door of my office ?

What is "ridiculous" is not evaluating how much this is "better" without considering its massive $2.5 billion
price tag.




Only from the viewpoint that federal funding is "free" and the viability of the project its being spent on doesn't matter. Hey, let's grab a slurp at that federal teat for.......anything !!!




I think you meant $400M ?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...=.136916650009

Montgomery Council President Roger Berliner (D-Potomac-Bethesda) said the state has already spent $400 million in Purple Line planning.




Well.....yes. Of course billions of $$ not spent can be "re-purposed." Towards something that is actually a viable expenditure. That or saved.

You seem to be pretending that money not spent on this wasteful boondoggle will simply vanish into thin air.

How about spending the $$ on something that will actually help the traffic congestion instead of just cannibalizing existing bus routes ?
So, if not now, when? What costs $2.5 billion now will cost twice as much ten years from now. And if buses were such a vastly superior alternative, there would be no rail at all. So, cities in Europe and other states here have gotten it all wrong? Should the world invest in buses? Shouldn't Virginia have invested in a bus line instead of the Silver Line? Why did they go with the Silver Line instead? Tell me why states and cities are still building out their rail networks instead of using buses since rail projects are boondoggles.
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