Why is Silver Spring and Wheaton immune to gentrification? (Baltimore: section 8, 2015)

[bufflove]

Originally Posted by IsThisNameTaken

I'm not from the area but I have noticed something that seems unique compared to where I come from. I have been researching rental properties in this area, I noticed that some of the properties look very nice and have what I consider to be high rent prices however they will also say Vouchers accepted. This is a bit different to me, I haven't spent much time researching rental properties in my own town but from what I observed growing up most of the people who had housing vouchers lived in separate communities from those who did not. I would guess this contributes to the diversity as it allows people with lower income to afford to live in middle class neighborhoods. However, as someone who won't qualify for a voucher I find this to be a bit disconcerting.

I believe it's illegal in the county to discriminate/reject applicants based on voucher status. Either way, the number of buildings that are within reach to poor people, even with the subsidy is pretty small (Summit Hills, Falkland Chase, and some of the older buildings about .5/1 mile outside of downtown on Thayer and Sligo Aves).

One program across Montgomery County that's surely different from where you're from is that all multifamily new builds are required to set aside at least 12.5% of units as MPDUs - moderately priced dwelling units - which are then priced at a fraction of the market price. The purpose is to try and mitigate the complete displacement of the working class population from the expensive downtowns (Bethesda, Silver Spring, Rockville). E.g. the north parcel of Falkland Chase (a relatively affordable garden apartment complex in Silver Spring) is being redeveloped into "luxury" highrises. It'll cause the loss of 182 affordable garden apartments, but will be replaced with 1250 new apartments, including 215 units set aside as "moderately priced" and "workforce" units. The redevelopment of the older affordable units, thanks to county policies, will actually increase the number of affordable units - at no cost to taxpayers - and will result in the additional tax boon of over 1000 new "luxury" units and over 70,000 in new retail space. It allows for working class people to continue living near their jobs, for retirees to continue living in their neighborhood, and substantially mitigates displacement and economic segregation.

[adelphi_sky]

Originally Posted by IsThisNameTaken

However, as someone who won't qualify for a voucher I find this to be a bit disconcerting.

Why is that?

[IsThisNameTaken]

Originally Posted by adelphi_sky

Why is that?

Why do you ask?

[DistrictSonic]

Originally Posted by bufflove

I believe it's illegal in the county to discriminate/reject applicants based on voucher status. Either way, the number of buildings that are within reach to poor people, even with the subsidy is pretty small (Summit Hills, Falkland Chase, and some of the older buildings about .5/1 mile outside of downtown on Thayer and Sligo Aves).

One program across Montgomery County that's surely different from where you're from is that all multifamily new builds are required to set aside at least 12.5% of units as MPDUs - moderately priced dwelling units - which are then priced at a fraction of the market price. The purpose is to try and mitigate the complete displacement of the working class population from the expensive downtowns (Bethesda, Silver Spring, Rockville). E.g. the north parcel of Falkland Chase (a relatively affordable garden apartment complex in Silver Spring) is being redeveloped into "luxury" highrises. It'll cause the loss of 182 affordable garden apartments, but will be replaced with 1250 new apartments, including 215 units set aside as "moderately priced" and "workforce" units. The redevelopment of the older affordable units, thanks to county policies, will actually increase the number of affordable units - at no cost to taxpayers - and will result in the additional tax boon of over 1000 new "luxury" units and over 70,000 in new retail space. It allows for working class people to continue living near their jobs, for retirees to continue living in their neighborhood, and substantially mitigates displacement and economic segregation.

This.

People who have vouchers are able to rent to anywhere that accepts a voucher. It's not crammed into "special neighborhoods" or even buildings. It is whoever rents who will take a voucher. I think in Montgomery county buildings over a certian size are required to take a voucher. In addition Montgomery County has had inclusionary zoning for years (I think they invented the concept). The poster's understanding of the voucher system is basically wrong to start with.

Vouchers though are usually capped at a certain rental value the voucher will handle, and beyond that the person with the voucher will have to cover the remainder. But in this case, the IZ provisions cover both voucher holders, as well as those who fall under IZ provisions. But the entire point of vouchers was to pull people out of areas of concentrated poverty. The problem with them being of course is that is not how it has worked out in many places, including the places the OP is familiar with. Voucher holders were pushed defacto into smaller areas based on the fact many landlords will not take vouchers.

[adelphi_sky]

Originally Posted by IsThisNameTaken

Why do you ask?

Because I can't read minds?

[IsThisNameTaken]

Originally Posted by DistrictSonic

This.

People who have vouchers are able to rent to anywhere that accepts a voucher. It's not crammed into "special neighborhoods" or even buildings. It is whoever rents who will take a voucher. I think in Montgomery county buildings over a certian size are required to take a voucher. In addition Montgomery County has had inclusionary zoning for years (I think they invented the concept). The poster's understanding of the voucher system is basically wrong to start with.

Vouchers though are usually capped at a certain rental value the voucher will handle, and beyond that the person with the voucher will have to cover the remainder. But in this case, the IZ provisions cover both voucher holders, as well as those who fall under IZ provisions. But the entire point of vouchers was to pull people out of areas of concentrated poverty. The problem with them being of course is that is not how it has worked out in many places, including the places the OP is familiar with. Voucher holders were pushed defacto into smaller areas based on the fact many landlords will not take vouchers.

I don't see how anything I wrote indicates a misunderstanding of the voucher system although I never claimed to be familiar with it to begin with.

bufflove, thanks for the info.

[IsThisNameTaken]

Originally Posted by adelphi_sky

Because I can't read minds?

You seem like you're trying to start something. If I didn't offer further explanation then I clearly wasn't intending to.

[adelphi_sky]

Originally Posted by IsThisNameTaken

You seem like you're trying to start something. If I didn't offer further explanation then I clearly wasn't intending to.

Nope. I just asked a simple question.

[shooter2219]

Originally Posted by DistrictSonic

You are making a great deal of assumptions about Silver Spring. Downtown Silver Spring is not that low income in general, and you are pretty out of touch if you think it is. It's diverse, but diverse does not mean poor or low income in this case, with Silver Spring, it's actual diversity. I don't know of many low income people that can frankly afford places like Urban Butcher, or the rents or housing costs in downtown Silver Spring.

It's not east of the river by any means, it's not even PG county. Downtown Silver Spring is pretty affluent by typical American standards. From a demographic standpoint it tracks to the higher end of middle class and upper middle class mostly. Just because there are more black people and immigrants than Bethesda does not mean it is a poor area or low income area. I should note, many of the Black people who regular Silver Spring are upper middle class and wealthy, they are often homeowners from Shepherd Park and Colonial Village. The rest are ethopian immigrants who are largely middle class.

The real truth is Silver Spring attracts people from all around the DC area for the entertainment, but that's the case with many other places in the DC area. The result is a diverse crowd on many nights.

It should be noted it has the highest concentration of millenials right now in the DC area as well.

Basically the people who live in Silver Spring is mostly middle class and upper-middle class. People below the poverty level represent around 10% of the population in the CDP, and they largely live in the eastern part towards university blvd, away from downtown. Because Silver Spring attracts a diverse crowd, and is safe, you have people from various racial and ethnic backgrounds go there. But the area itself is by no means poor.

I don't know where you have this delusional attitude that Silver Spring is low income, but it is certainly not informed by reality. Even the restaurants represent a mix of higher end places, chains, and ethnic restaurants. Low income places would not have such a vibrant mix.

Wheaton is a more traditionally middle class immigrant area, in fact it is one of the few real middle class places in the DC metro area. Seriously, if you want to see low income go east of the river in DC. That's predominantly low income.

It should be noted Silver Spring is gentrifying, but it will be much harder to tell because the area is by no means struggling. This is not like H St or U St which had husks of abandoned buildings lining the streets suddenly getting an influx of businesses. On the contrary, Silver Spring is already a healthy middle class area that is getting more upscale businesses as time goes on. Taking the scale of developments...many will take more time. Even then I don't think Silver Spring having a diverse retail and restaurant mix will shift dramatically to entirely high end stores. Nor should it.

i never thought id be saying this but for hte first time ever i agree with you! u even took the words right out my head!!!!!!

[Chriz Brown]

Originally Posted by adelphi_sky

How do you know they aren't? You haven't shared one piece of data to substantiate your claim that these people aren't moving to Silver Spring. And what constitutes upper-middle and middle-class has changed due to the shrinking of the middle class over the past two decades.

Are you just driving down the street counting who you think is upper class by the way they dress? Walk? Skin-color?

I think a lot of assumptions are being made without any real basis of fact.

I walk around and judge based on how the people dress. There is a certain way low class people dress that other classes don't.

And again.. class has nothing to do with income. You can be rich and low class.