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I generally agree except that New York City has exactly the transportation system you describe. It's the best in the nation.
Comparing NYC to LA or Atlanta is a non-starter.
All of these cities are tough to get around by car. I've personally seen Atlanta's rush hour, got stuck in the LA traffic, and in NY if you don't live in the city, its tough getting in....
Personally, I guess I am use to the traffic and I know when and when to to get on the road. I commuted from Tysons to MD for years, if you don't get over the bridge by 3:00, you're going sit in your car for an hour...
It would be so nice to be so simple minded. You do not factor in costs, schools, crime, and many other factors. The decision of where to live is not made solely on one factor for most people.
I agree and it's a point I make in a later comment, if not that one. People can weigh pros and cons and live as far away as they want; I'm just saying complaining about the resulting traffic from a 70 mile a day commute makes no sense. Of course it sucks - the person is actively contributing to the suckiness. And it's not the job of urban planners or metro or closer-in jurisdictions to sacrifice resources to turn that nonsensical commute into something logical and easy. All that does is further induce sprawl and cause even more traffic the closer you get to the core.
It is preposterous to think that suburban commuters will....drive to a Metro parking lot, or pay to take a take a bus there..... pay to park......pay obscenely high peak Metro fares.......suffer Metro's poor reliability.......then spend time walking to work from the Metro station. The cost usually roughly equals paying to just drive to DC and park, and the time spent is inordinate.
I disagree. I think that people value time the most. If they don't have to worry about stop and go traffic and accidents all while reading their favorite book, catching up on work, socializing on the train, or even catching a cat nap, then I think that is well worth the monetary cost.
I used to catch the metro to West Falls Church and then took a coach bus to Ashburn. Talk about relaxation.
I disagree. I think that people value time the most. If they don't have to worry about stop and go traffic and accidents all while reading their favorite book, catching up on work, socializing on the train, or even catching a cat nap, then I think that is well worth the monetary cost.
I used to catch the metro to West Falls Church and then took a coach bus to Ashburn. Talk about relaxation.
Why is there Black Flight from Prince George's (and even DC) to Charles County? Schools, maybe? Crime, maybe (and don't you PG folks jump on that. Yes, crime is way down in the County but that's not the perception no matter what Rushern wants you to believe)? Lower taxes for better services, maybe?
Yes, I will jump on that.
Crime and schools are less of an excuse now when you see what's going on across the border. DC won no awards for low crime, over-performing public schools, and poverty rates in the low single digits 20 years ago. Like I said before, DC has the jobs people are looking for and these people moved to DC proper despite the high crime, poor performing schools, and poverty.
There are always migratory cycles. After all, DC can no longer be called Chocolate City, City Under Siege, or the Crack Capitol of the country; monikers that PG never had. Someone will fill in the gap in the inner Beltway communities. And it won't be all poor black people.
I visited a friend in the new town homes in Capitol Heights that have been discussed in this forum and I saw more than one white neighbor of theirs. One was a young white family.
I see white people walking in DC hoods now when even I used to avoid them just over a decade ago. So, it's not always about schools, crime, and poverty. Young professionals are more tolerant of some of the "grittiness" and diversity their parents refused live around 25 years ago. Especially if it means they could have more discretionary money in their pockets.
And PG is no Baltimore. The inner Beltway of PG is about 10 years behind DC's revitalization. We can already see the uptick in billions being invested in the county already. The consideration of the FBI is a result of that small progress. As DC becomes as expensive to live as San Francisco, LA, NYC, etc., you will see the gentrification/revitalization of the inner suburbs increase outward as people look for cheaper, but quality housing in close proximity to downtown DC. The Purple Line should accelerate that growth for the inner Beltway communities.
Developers aren't building low-income housing. Look at PG Plaza. Every new housing stock has been Class A market rate housing.
All those young professionals could have flooded Fairfax and Montgomery Counties and stayed clear of the crime and poverty living within DC's borders, but that didn't happen.
Personally I think those "fleeing" to Charles County are making a mistake unless they just like rural living. If they decide to come back, they may not be able to afford it. therefore traffic will get no better for them as the inner suburbs fill in.
It reminds me of people who react too fast to the stock market. Sure the market may go down, but history has shown that it always rebounds. That's what is happening in DC and the surrounding suburbs. People just need to be patient.
I agree and it's a point I make in a later comment, if not that one. People can weigh pros and cons and live as far away as they want; I'm just saying complaining about the resulting traffic from a 70 mile a day commute makes no sense. Of course it sucks - the person is actively contributing to the suckiness. And it's not the job of urban planners or metro or closer-in jurisdictions to sacrifice resources to turn that nonsensical commute into something logical and easy. All that does is further induce sprawl and cause even more traffic the closer you get to the core.
Well, I think they have a right to complain. It isn't always their fault they are stuck with a horrible commute.
Yes, I will jump on that. ........................
All those young professionals could have flooded Fairfax and Montgomery Counties and stayed clear of the crime and poverty living within DC's borders, but that didn't happen.
Personally I think those "fleeing" to Charles County are making a mistake unless they just like rural living. If they decide to come back, they may not be able to afford it. therefore traffic will get no better for them as the inner suburbs fill in................
I knew you would.
Yes, for now. But then the question is going to be asked, "Now what?" when they begin raising families. Will they be happy living in a condo/rowhouse with no yard and having to go several blocks for their kids to play? Or getting groceries using a two wheel cart? When it comes time for school will they put those kids in public or private? If public, will it be for all 12/13 years or just elementary?
It took decades for the school system (in both DC and Prince George's) to decline to where it is. It will be decades to improve it. And it won't be done in either jurisdiction as long as 70% plus of the students are officially considered living in poverty (FARM).
For the second, many if not most, of those who moved did so because it was becoming unaffordable where they were.
Where many of those migrants are moving, northern Charles around Waldorf and St. Charles, is not "rural".
Yes, for now. But then the question is going to be asked, "Now what?" when they begin raising families. Will they be happy living in a condo/rowhouse with no yard and having to go several blocks for their kids to play? Or getting groceries using a two wheel cart? When it comes time for school will they put those kids in public or private? If public, will it be for all 12/13 years or just elementary?
That's a good question. Raising families in urban settings has been done before when the suburbs really didn't exist. I think there is a different mindset now. Families back then flew to the suburbs because of the new love affair with the car which gave them a new sense of freedom and also the ability to escape the encroachment of urban poverty. This generation doesn't seem to have that same love affair with cars and they are more socially driven. I can see them wanting their kids to be socially driven as well. Being close to so many people doing so many activities gives them that option. Therefore, they will tend to hang around places that are social hubs and where mass transit options exist despite poverty and crime nearby.
A lot of movies and TV shows now poke fun at people that live in the suburbs displaying them as boring vanilla social deserts where people lose their souls. lol The TV shows Friends, Seinfeld, Sex and the City, etc. really sold this generation the social benefits on living in an urban setting.
If there is a shift back to the suburbs, it will take as long is it took the shift back to the cities. I may be dead before that happens. lol If anything there will be a sift towards major urban nodes along the Beltway, i.e. Rockville, Silver Spring, Alexandria, etc.
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It took decades for the school system (in both DC and Prince George's) to decline to where it is. It will be decades to improve it. And it won't be done in either jurisdiction as long as 70% plus of the students are officially considered living in poverty (FARM).
Well, my main point was that areas always shift. Who would have thought 20 years ago DC would be experiencing such a renaissance and an influx of young professionals? We all know PG was white before it turned black. And now there is black flight to Charles County. Personally I don't see PG staying the way it has been with so much change going on around it. Like I said, it isn't like parts of Baltimore. There is active investment going on throughout the county.
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For the second, many if not most, of those who moved who moved did so because it was becoming unaffordable where they were.
Where many of those migrants are moving, northern Charles around Waldorf and St. Charles, is not "rural".
Well, to some degree. I think when they saw they could have the 4000 sqft home for the same price of a house half that size closer to DC, their mouths watered. And when their friends saw these huge homes, they too couldn't resist. And the schools were better. So, I understand the migration of folk to Charles County.
When I go to places in the south and see these big homes for half the price of homes int he DC area, it tugs at you a bit.
Well, I think they have a right to complain. It isn't always their fault they are stuck with a horrible commute.
It depends. I agree with Bufflove. I mean it is like a person in College Park complaining about noisy students. Well, you moved next to a major university. What did you expect?
I recall an article about a mother who moved to Hagerstown because she wanted her kids to go to a good school. She left at 4am and got home at like 7pm. She has no right to complain about traffic or the time it takes away from her family. It was her choice. Not a very bright one. Kinda defeats the purpose if you miss out on the life of your children int he process. But by golly they will know how to read! Unfortunately WTOP took down the article. Probably because there was a lot of negative feedback.
Or how about a person who moves to NYC and complains about people being everywhere all the time. Sometimes I think people are responsible for their own choices. If you KNOW the area you are moving to is growing rapidly, you should also know that roads and transportation are always the last to be built to account for that growth.
And adding and widening roads never helps. It is a very simply science problem. If you are trying to get water into a can with a hole the diameter of a dime and the hose leading to that hole has the circumference of a dime, it doesn't matter how big the hose is 5,10, 30 feet away, all that water still has to go through that tiny hose. DC isn't going to build ten lane roads throughout the city. So all these feeder roads and highways in and around the Beltway can't get any bigger. There's a point where it is futile. The same goes for roads in the exurbs, you can only build and widen so much before you put stress on roads further down the line that weren't designed to take 500,000 autos per hour.
You may disagree, but quite obviously the majority of people around here do NOT. Hence, the astounding recent drop in Metro ridership.
And to say that Metro saves time versus driving, even with our crummy traffic, is simply incorrect.
You sure you got stats to back that up those assertions? Are you saying that in Vienna on 66 is faster driving into DC than riding the metro? Or Coming from Shady Grove in the morning?
I used to work in Ashburn and always got stuck in a 30 minute delay going from the toll road to the 495 on ramp (half a mile). I'm pretty sure the Silver Line took care of that problem for a lot of folk.
Again, are you sure you have stats? Even with all the mishaps at Metro, it is still pretty convenient for most. The entire system hasn't fallen in such disrepair.
And is there a number that matches your use of the word "astounding"?
Can you reconcile your statement with this? A 5% drop in 5 years is hardly astounding.
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Unfortunately WTOP took down the article. Probably because there was a lot of negative feedback. 
