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Old 08-30-2021, 11:38 AM
 
Location: It's in the name!
7,083 posts, read 9,561,771 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by terp80 View Post
UMD had groundbreaking today for new chemistry building, slated for completion late 2023. https://umdrightnow.umd.edu/umd-brea...istry-building

105,000 square feet, and estimated to cost $116 million.
I wonder how much economic activity each of these high tech research facilities generate for the state. You always read about how much these new facilities will help researchers. Wonder how much bang for the buck we get out of these facilities.
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Old 08-30-2021, 12:47 PM
 
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https://dbknews.com/2021/08/30/welco...orms-building/
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Old 08-30-2021, 09:43 PM
 
Location: Beautiful and sanitary DC
2,503 posts, read 3,537,677 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by adelphi_sky View Post
I wonder how much economic activity each of these high tech research facilities generate for the state.
In the short term, probably not much. But there's a small chance that one of these research facilities could give birth to a big company. Having grown up near Raleigh, I've seen how early investments in not just research facilities, but also facilitation of university technology transfer, really pays off for a city's economic development.
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Old 08-31-2021, 07:30 AM
 
Location: It's in the name!
7,083 posts, read 9,561,771 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by paytonc View Post
In the short term, probably not much. But there's a small chance that one of these research facilities could give birth to a big company. Having grown up near Raleigh, I've seen how early investments in not just research facilities, but also facilitation of university technology transfer, really pays off for a city's economic development.
Cool. I always thought about investing in one of the start-ups from UMD.
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Old 09-02-2021, 03:35 PM
 
Location: It's in the name!
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From this flyer, it looks like some spaces in the Aster development at South campus are at lease or signed. Including the specialty grocer space. Any ides on who the grocer could be?

https://klnb.propertycapsule.com/pro.../view/id:33473
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Old 09-02-2021, 04:47 PM
 
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I'm sure most people are hoping for a Trader Joe, but I doubt it. I don't believe the demographics will support it. WFM at Riverdale is not performing well.

That said, Amazon is opening at least three different formats of grocery store. Regular full size, Amazon Fresh, and Amazon Go. The latter two would fit that space.

I wouldn't rule out Grocery Outlet. They also use that size. They are currently mostly west coast but have been expanding in Pa, at least 20 stores, and were bought by private equity a couple of years ago, so have money, and have gone from 100 to 400 stores in about 10 years. They operate both corporate and franchise stores.

https://www.groceryoutlet.com/

I'd say Sprouts, Fresh Market, and Gourmet Grocer are unlikely.
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Old 09-03-2021, 06:50 AM
 
1,025 posts, read 1,751,615 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Very Man Himself View Post
I'm sure most people are hoping for a Trader Joe, but I doubt it. I don't believe the demographics will support it. WFM at Riverdale is not performing well.

That said, Amazon is opening at least three different formats of grocery store. Regular full size, Amazon Fresh, and Amazon Go. The latter two would fit that space.

I wouldn't rule out Grocery Outlet. They also use that size. They are currently mostly west coast but have been expanding in Pa, at least 20 stores, and were bought by private equity a couple of years ago, so have money, and have gone from 100 to 400 stores in about 10 years. They operate both corporate and franchise stores.

https://www.groceryoutlet.com/

I'd say Sprouts, Fresh Market, and Gourmet Grocer are unlikely.
Not performing well? That is news to me because when I visit it is always packed. Same goes with other organic stores like MoMs in College Park.

What demographics would need to support a Trader Joe's? The area is growing with higher end housing. Just look at Riverdale Park and the new townhomes being built in Hyattsville.
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Old 09-03-2021, 07:35 AM
 
Location: It's in the name!
7,083 posts, read 9,561,771 times
Reputation: 3780
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Very Man Himself View Post
I'm sure most people are hoping for a Trader Joe, but I doubt it. I don't believe the demographics will support it. WFM at Riverdale is not performing well.
I know I'm not hoping for a Trader Joes. Most of their products are processed anyway.

Also, When you say WFM in Riverdale Park is not performing well, what does that mean? Source? Is it because of COVID where a lot of retailers took a hit? More residences are coming online at Riverdale Park Station which would increase the foot traffic. As well as residences at South Campus. So, WFM's balance sheet will continue to grow. We order delivery from there every week as I'm sure a lot of people do now because of COVID.

There was a thread about Trader Joe's a while back where I shared what demographics they were looking for. They were looking for educated demographics who they think are cultured enough to have a variety of food tastes. We damn. lol. What better than at a internationally recognized research institution with students and faculty from all over the world? And a residential base that is diverse and has the income to support their boxed and frozen goods? TBH, the luster of Trader Joe's faded on me as I continued to shop there. Not sure what the hype was about. Maybe we're spoiled here, but we have access to just about every ethnic food on the planet in our area restaurant-wise and grocery-wise. Maybe they feel we're too cultured?

Quote:
That said, Amazon is opening at least three different formats of grocery store. Regular full size, Amazon Fresh, and Amazon Go. The latter two would fit that space.
Meh. We saw the commercial about the Amazon Fresh in Friendship Heights. I think it is an interesting concept. But I'm not doing backflips if they put one in College Park. What's the selection going to be? That's the important question. I don't care about how cool the store is if they sell crap food. We don't need any glorified 7-Elevens. Target Express already sells groceries.

What I'm looking for in a specialty grocer is stuff I can't find at Lidl, Aldi, Shoppers, and WFM. They offer something unique.

Quote:
I wouldn't rule out Grocery Outlet. They also use that size. They are currently mostly west coast but have been expanding in Pa, at least 20 stores, and were bought by private equity a couple of years ago, so have money, and have gone from 100 to 400 stores in about 10 years. They operate both corporate and franchise stores.
I doubt you'd see a Grocery Outlet. Lidl is right up the road and Aldi is not far. High barrier to entry for discount foods.

Quote:
I'd say Sprouts, Fresh Market, and Gourmet Grocer are unlikely.
why would any of these be unlikely?
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Old 09-03-2021, 09:30 AM
 
2,289 posts, read 1,565,832 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by adelphi_sky View Post
I know I'm not hoping for a Trader Joes. Most of their products are processed anyway.

Also, When you say WFM in Riverdale Park is not performing well, what does that mean? Source? Is it because of COVID where a lot of retailers took a hit? More residences are coming online at Riverdale Park Station which would increase the foot traffic. As well as residences at South Campus. So, WFM's balance sheet will continue to grow. We order delivery from there every week as I'm sure a lot of people do now because of COVID.

There was a thread about Trader Joe's a while back where I shared what demographics they were looking for. They were looking for educated demographics who they think are cultured enough to have a variety of food tastes. We damn. lol. What better than at a internationally recognized research institution with students and faculty from all over the world? And a residential base that is diverse and has the income to support their boxed and frozen goods? TBH, the luster of Trader Joe's faded on me as I continued to shop there. Not sure what the hype was about. Maybe we're spoiled here, but we have access to just about every ethnic food on the planet in our area restaurant-wise and grocery-wise. Maybe they feel we're too cultured?



Meh. We saw the commercial about the Amazon Fresh in Friendship Heights. I think it is an interesting concept. But I'm not doing backflips if they put one in College Park. What's the selection going to be? That's the important question. I don't care about how cool the store is if they sell crap food. We don't need any glorified 7-Elevens. Target Express already sells groceries.

What I'm looking for in a specialty grocer is stuff I can't find at Lidl, Aldi, Shoppers, and WFM. They offer something unique.



I doubt you'd see a Grocery Outlet. Lidl is right up the road and Aldi is not far. High barrier to entry for discount foods.



why would any of these be unlikely?
My sources are trade sources, so no links. I've worked for companies that supply the grocery trade. It's not performing well relative to nearby WFMs. When it opened it was budgeted to be a "below average" store, suggesting that WFM had succumbed to "political pressure" to open in PG. If you were going to choose a location to open a WFM in PG, Bowie would be much more attractive, but still marginal.

I visit Riverdale about once a month midday Saturday or Sunday and I make a point of noting checkout utilization. It's rarely above 50%. Go to the Silver Spring location which has many more checkouts and it's rarely below 100%. I have noticed a large increase in delivery packing stations so that likely accounts for some of any decline in traffic.

Before Amazon bought them the average WFM was turning $38M per year. I believe the budget for Riverdale was $20M, and I understand Annapolis is turning north of $75M. Search for WFM stores in DC and Md, on Google Maps, see how they are distributed, and let me know what you learn from that.

Lidl and Grocery Outlet cater to different markets. Lidl is mostly private label. Outlet is mostly branded product.

New homeowners are rarely a valued demographic for upscale discretionary spending. They tend to be asset rich and cash poor.

Sprouts, Fresh Market, etc. use a larger format and don't appear to be in expansion mode, probably because they lack the money. Both have had 5 stores in Md for years and have shown no signs of expansion.

I mostly agree with you about Amazon, but unfortunately just as Arby's "has the meats" they have the monies.
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Old 09-03-2021, 10:01 AM
 
Location: It's in the name!
7,083 posts, read 9,561,771 times
Reputation: 3780
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Very Man Himself View Post
My sources are trade sources, so no links. I've worked for companies that supply the grocery trade. It's not performing well relative to nearby WFMs. When it opened it was budgeted to be a "below average" store, suggesting that WFM had succumbed to "political pressure" to open in PG. If you were going to choose a location to open a WFM in PG, Bowie would be much more attractive, but still marginal.
I don't buy the political pressure part. The county had no leverage over Amazon. At all. There is nothing in PG that Amazon had to throw a bone for in the county. This is evident in how the Amazon warehouse in Landover was nixed. The county would have pushed that through with all due speed as a token of appreciation for WFM. But sided with the residents to block it - biting the hand that gave them a WFM.

Quote:
I visit Riverdale about once a month midday Saturday or Sunday and I make a point of noting checkout utilization. It's rarely above 50%. Go to the Silver Spring location which has many more checkouts and it's rarely below 100%. I have noticed a large increase in delivery packing stations so that likely accounts for some of any decline in traffic.
Comparing the Silver Spring location is apple store oranges. Silver Spring is way more densely populated and doesn't have a portion of its customers leave during the summer. Part of WFM traffic in Riverdale are college students and faculty. Unfortunately most retail sales would decline with school isn't in session.

We can all agree that there are locations with way more density and foot traffic than the Riverdale location. WFM know that going in as well. And I'm sure they saw the projections with increasing development and foot traffic.

Quote:
Before Amazon bought them the average WFM was turning $38M per year. I believe the budget for Riverdale was $20M, and I understand Annapolis is turning north of $75M. Search for WFM stores in DC and Md, on Google Maps, see how they are distributed, and let me know what you learn from that.
Do you believe? Are you guessing?

How is MOM doing? Yes! Organic? WFM is way cheaper than both. But yet there is enough market share that all three are still co-exist.

Quote:
Lidl and Grocery Outlet cater to different markets. Lidl is mostly private label. Outlet is mostly branded product.
So do you also know how well Lidl is doing?

Quote:
New homeowners are rarely a valued demographic for upscale discretionary spending. They tend to be asset rich and cash poor.
Source? New homeowners? Does that include transplants who sold a home and moved to the area? Also, renters? The area already has an existing housing stock.

I think the WFM in Riverdale was understood to be locating where there would be low density until new development increased the customer base. There are literally billions of dollars of development within a 2 mile stretch along RT. 1. We're not even talking about Hyattsville. Thankfully more of this development will be offices and market rate non-student housing at the College Park Metro.

Perhaps WFM came too early? But I think it would be premature to say that things will get worse. COVID didn't help at all either. I think one has to build in that variable as well.

Worst case, we loose WFM. I won't be broke up about it as we have our food delivered 75% of the time anyway. Best case, they stay, the area continues to grow, COVID is a memory, and their revenue increases.

But it will be interesting to see who takes that new spot and how that affects the surrounding grocers. If the store IS specialty and offers products that don't take away form Whole Foods, then I think that will be a good thing. Otherwise, more options could further delay revenue growth for WFM.
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