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I think it's great that the state is throwing their support behind Baltimore's Port Covington which is a great site and has great backing now more than ever with the Goldman sachs involved but I would hope the state isnt throwing their eggs into one basket. The area is relatively safe just south of the core of the south Baltimore area but I'm not sure what impact the crime and schools will have which are deplorable.
That being said I think North Bethesda/ Pike District area is also a strong site The area includes Federal Realty's Pike and Rose (The best new development in the DC area imo), LCORs North Bethesda Town Center and JBGs North Bethesda Market and of course the old White Flint mall site meets most of the criteria.
This part of North Bethesda is urbanizing at a rapid rate and is far ahead of tysons corner in that regard with better street grid as well. It has had transit for years with white flint station there and twinbrook just up the road.
The space is there to support 8.1 million square feet of office space. There are several vacant office buildings in the same lot that would be adequate for an initial 500,000 sq/ft move in or they could move into something new at Pike and Rose such as 909 Rose, I dont think it would take much to increase the building height to accommodate 500k sq/ft for Amazon.
Pike and Rose is just a stunning project with the best architecture I've seen in a new Development in the D.C. area. The Henri for example just has stunning architectural details that other developers complain about being too costly or cant be done. It is a vibrant project that is always packed and has diverse demographics.
The area has low crime, good schools, and housing in the area north in Montgomery County is cheaper than northern va. The area definitely has the tech talent. Also if all these liberal companies want to put their money where their mouth is they would move their headquarters to blue county instead of always going for northern va that despite its' stance, is purple at best and is still run by the remnants of the confederacy in richmond.
Negatives for the North Bethesda/Pike District? Not hat close to an airport but a MARC train stop and purple line will make that easier to get to DCA at least. Also state not seen as business friendly thanks to high taxes and the Dems ironically and Montgomery County Planning with their silly height limits and of course Montgomery County Council (Berliner) saying stupid things like "Everyone wins no mater where it goes so I'm putting my support behind all sites in the dc area even those in northern va" perhaps in the state but not if it goes to D.C. or va, wonder how Hilton choosing nova benefited Maryland or how the FBI being in nova would have helped MD? Then why even compete?
Yep, I agree. Here was my (much less thorough) take in the other Amazon thread:
"Only neighborhood in MoCo I can think of that'd make sense is North Bethesda. There are a couple of very large, undeveloped parcels owned by major (read: competent) developers. Amazon will be able to shape the area however they like, but there's already a baseline of solid transit options, top-tier schools, nice amenities, great surrounding neighborhoods, etc. to build off of. I'm fairly surprised Marriott ended up picking downtown Bethesda over North Bethesda for their HQ relocation; it'd be great if North Bethesda could get an even bigger F500 as their consolation prize."
Yep, I agree. Here was my (much less thorough) take in the other Amazon thread:
"Only neighborhood in MoCo I can think of that'd make sense is North Bethesda. There are a couple of very large, undeveloped parcels owned by major (read: competent) developers. Amazon will be able to shape the area however they like, but there's already a baseline of solid transit options, top-tier schools, nice amenities, great surrounding neighborhoods, etc. to build off of. I'm fairly surprised Marriott ended up picking downtown Bethesda over North Bethesda for their HQ relocation; it'd be great if North Bethesda could get an even bigger F500 as their consolation prize."
You make it sound as if North Bethesda needs help. North Bethesda is nice, but I think some people are beginning to lean towards areas that are a tad less fortunate than North Bethesda to help equal out some of the disparities. Especially between the east and west Purple Line corridor suburbs. An example is the Governor going with Port Covington; an area that is in much need of redevelopment. And we all know that Baltimore desperately needs a shot in the arm.
Must the winners always win? Don't get me wrong. I'm advocating for the HQ2 to go anywhere along the Purple Line/ICC corridor. That would give workers living within corridor easy access and it could spur development along the corridor a lot faster. But it would be nice if some eastern districts got some F500 love as well. Especially since the FBI HQ was snatched out from under their feet.
The size of PIKE & Rose alone is bigger than any development in PG except for National Harbor. New Carrollton would be the next largest. But that buildout is ten years down the road. Koneterra is 10 years down the road and away from transit.
However, I do feel that locations in PG have less of a chance than those areas east of Georgia Avenue.
Last edited by adelphi_sky; 09-18-2017 at 12:44 PM..
You make it sound as if North Bethesda needs help. North Bethesda is nice, but I think some people are beginning to lean towards areas that are a tad less fortunate than North Bethesda to help equal out some of the disparities. Especially between the east and west Purple Line corridor suburbs. An example is the Governor going with Port Covington; an area that is in much need of redevelopment. And we all know that Baltimore desperately needs a shot in the arm.
Must the winners always win? Don't get me wrong. I'm advocating for the HQ2 to go anywhere along the Purple Line/ICC corridor. That would give workers living within corridor easy access and it could spur development along the corridor a lot faster. But it would be nice if some eastern districts got some F500 love as well. Especially since the FBI HQ was snatched out from under their feet.
The size of PIKE & Rose alone is bigger than any development in PG except for National Harbor. New Carrollton would be the next largest. But that buildout is ten years down the road. Koneterra is 10 years down the road and away from transit.
However, I do feel that locations in PG have less of a chance than those areas east of Georgia Avenue.
It's a nice sentiment, but I don't think Amazon cares about helping the "less fortunate." And I think you're giving Hogan too much credit; he's suggesting Port Covington precisely because it's insulated and separated from the troubled parts of Baltimore. It's the exact opposite of "equal[ing] out some of the [city's] disparities." Which isn't to say I'm against Baltimore - Port Covington or otherwise - getting Amazon. That'd be amazing.
You make it sound as if North Bethesda needs help. North Bethesda is nice, but I think some people are beginning to lean towards areas that are a tad less fortunate than North Bethesda to help equal out some of the disparities. Especially between the east and west Purple Line corridor suburbs. An example is the Governor going with Port Covington; an area that is in much need of redevelopment. And we all know that Baltimore desperately needs a shot in the arm.
Must the winners always win? Don't get me wrong. I'm advocating for the HQ2 to go anywhere along the Purple Line/ICC corridor. That would give workers living within corridor easy access and it could spur development along the corridor a lot faster. But it would be nice if some eastern districts got some F500 love as well. Especially since the FBI HQ was snatched out from under their feet.
The size of PIKE & Rose alone is bigger than any development in PG except for National Harbor. New Carrollton would be the next largest. But that buildout is ten years down the road. Koneterra is 10 years down the road and away from transit.
However, I do feel that locations in PG have less of a chance than those areas east of Georgia Avenue.
I feel the same but the goal is to play to win right? I am not saying eliminate other options but I do not know why this area has not been mentioned by officials, it should definitely be part of the submittal. Montgomery government has been tight lipped (which I'm kind of glad) besides the "Kum Ba Yah" crap from councilmember Berliner. At least Prince Goerge's officials are more realistic in saying regionalism only goes so far... IMO it doesnt work between states, either merge under one government or get real.
Also Konterra always seems like a pipe dream, thing should have been well ahead by now but kind of glad it's not getting built, it's just a greenfield waste. I would much rather see more infill in College Park and Route 1 to the DC border or adding more office space to National Harbor or even focusing that on Oxon Hill road which has great potential. IMO I would throw National Harbor in as site for Amazon as well. The right-of-way for the Yellow line metro extension is already there, Harborview site (now MGM) was set aside for a large corporate user. Too bad MGM got there first, I would have gladly taken Amazon and all that office space over retail and a casino. There is still space though, perhaps MGM can set aside the unnecessary hotel/phase 2 and let Amazon start off there instead.
It's a nice sentiment, but I don't think Amazon cares about helping the "less fortunate." And I think you're giving Hogan too much credit; he's suggesting Port Covington precisely because it's insulated and separated from the troubled parts of Baltimore. It's the exact opposite of "equal[ing] out some of the [city's] disparities." Which isn't to say I'm against Baltimore - Port Covington or otherwise - getting Amazon. That'd be amazing.
If it works for the company and the city at the same time, why not? THere are stories about cities being reborn. Pittsburgh is one of them. Detroit is on the upswing. I think a few companies wouldn't mind being credited with revitalizing entire cities. For one, they get dirt cheap land. ANd if the revitalization takes hold, it can stabilize the local economy and bring more development in, schools improve, etc. etc. Which is good for the company in that it brings in more educated local talent. Under Armor is taking that risk. I don't see why other companies can't do the same.
After all, cities can't be revitalized without an increase in jobs.
Also Konterra always seems like a pipe dream, thing should have been well ahead by now but kind of glad it's not getting built, it's just a greenfield waste. I would much rather see more infill in College Park and Route 1 to the DC border or adding more office space to National Harbor or even focusing that on Oxon Hill road which has great potential.
Why is Konterra a greenfield waste? MoCo can have all the development but PG County must remain green?
It's the same sentiment with the Capital Crescent Trail and the Purple Line. People NOW are concerned about the trees on the trail just when neighborhoods to the east are in need of development and revitalization that may arise from the Purple Line. But now we must be more concerned with trees than with development "over there."
Having said that, I still support the whole Purple Line corridor. But if there are sites in the east of the corridor that are just as good, I would hope there would be a strong consensus to shoot for regional balance. THere was a glimmer of that when MoCo didn't bid for the FBI.
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IMO I would throw National Harbor in as site for Amazon as well. The right-of-way for the Yellow line metro extension is already there, Harborview site (now MGM) was set aside for a large corporate user. Too bad MGM got there first, I would have gladly taken Amazon and all that office space over retail and a casino. There is still space though, perhaps MGM can set aside the unnecessary hotel/phase 2 and let Amazon start off there instead.
National Harbor is not going to happen. If you thought people in that area were furious about traffic in that area when MGM was proposed, throw in another 50k employees with no transit on the same roads and you'll have angry mobs at the county council offices. Transit has to come first or it at least has to be a near-term vision. That area can't sustain that much development for transit to be 30 years away. Metro needs money to maintain what it has. And no state is going to come up with money to extend it (post Silver Line) after spending hundreds of millions just to keep it running. For now, the Purple Line is it for MD as far as transit. Especially after that project went through decades of starts and stops and now lawsuit after lawsuit.
With a company so flush with cash, I've wondered why they don't just build an "Olympic Village" for most of their workers to live in, and obviate the impact on local transportation.
Why is Konterra a greenfield waste? MoCo can have all the development but PG County must remain green?
It's the same sentiment with the Capital Crescent Trail and the Purple Line. People NOW are concerned about the trees on the trail just when neighborhoods to the east are in need of development and revitalization that may arise from the Purple Line. But now we must be more concerned with trees than with development "over there."
Having said that, I still support the whole Purple Line corridor. But if there are sites in the east of the corridor that are just as good, I would hope there would be a strong consensus to shoot for regional balance. THere was a glimmer of that when MoCo didn't bid for the FBI.
National Harbor is not going to happen. If you thought people in that area were furious about traffic in that area when MGM was proposed, throw in another 50k employees with no transit on the same roads and you'll have angry mobs at the county council offices. Transit has to come first or it at least has to be a near-term vision. That area can't sustain that much development for transit to be 30 years away. Metro needs money to maintain what it has. And no state is going to come up with money to extend it (post Silver Line) after spending hundreds of millions just to keep it running. For now, the Purple Line is it for MD as far as transit. Especially after that project went through decades of starts and stops and now lawsuit after lawsuit.
Cause Prince George's has more important things to worry about and has more distressed areas to deal with than Montgomery. Tax dollars would be better spent fixing areas inside the beltway in the county and luring more tech companies to the county. I also think Greenbelt would be a terrible site for Amazon and a revitalization waste, I just dont see them there. I really do think they want to be part of an existing urban fabric or very close to one. I really would hate to see some "Towers in the park" or low-to-mid-rise office buildings as part of their project. Prince George's seems more liberal with building heights than Montgomery but Pike District and Port Covington seems like the best bet as they have highrises urban and office clusters nearby.
I still say National Harbor would be a lure, especially on the casino site, yes it's a bit isolated (for now) but the tie in potential is there. Theres' no rail transit at Port Covington yet either and I think National Harbor has as good a chance to extend a rail line as Port covington does, it would be heavy rail too and be direct to DCA. This time people can live in va if they want and Maryland can take the jobs and office space as well as the multiplier of supporting business and tech companies that want to be close to Amazon. No burden of building new schools and roads, housing etc.
But MGM is there now so oh well.
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North Bethesda is nice, but I think some people are beginning to lean towards areas that are a tad less fortunate than North Bethesda to help equal out some of the disparities. Especially between the east and west Purple Line corridor suburbs. An example is the Governor going with Port Covington; an area that is in much need of redevelopment. And we all know that Baltimore desperately needs a shot in the arm.
