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Old 07-24-2023, 02:23 PM
 
Location: On the Chesapeake
45,333 posts, read 60,500,026 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ion475 View Post
Just call them Washington Generals and move on...they win as many games as the Generals do anyway.
Too warlike.
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Old 07-24-2023, 08:39 PM
 
Location: Lost in Montana *recalculating*...
19,743 posts, read 22,635,943 times
Reputation: 24902
The irony in the old name is that the famous side portrait of the famous Native as the logo was done by a Blackfeet Native, and he drew the inspiration from images of a Blackfeet chief. At the time he did it was to raise awareness of Native Americans.

https://www.greatfallstribune.com/st...ry/5430049002/

Of course different times- I get it. I did mention to one of my Blackfeet friends who was pretty influential in the tribe the possibility of approaching Snyder about simply adopting the name Blackfeet which would honor the tribe and give credibility to the image. And demand a revenue sharing agreement on merch revenue.

He said Dan Snyder? Fat chance.

I grew up in suburban DC so I am GLAD Snyder is GONE.

Last edited by Threerun; 07-24-2023 at 09:49 PM..
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Old 07-26-2023, 08:06 AM
 
4,394 posts, read 4,281,158 times
Reputation: 3902
Quote:
Originally Posted by westsideboy View Post
Nothing Red**** with a modified version of the song, or with dangling feathers, or anything that sniffs of "Redskins" will be accepted. It would be correctly seen as a way to keep the name without keeping the name, which in the mind of the people who demanded it be changed is just as bad. The only shot you guys had at that was the WFT, literally choosing no name, so everyone would remember there used to be a name we can't say anymore, but Danny Boy got rid of that too for the Kommodors, and I doubt WFT can come back now.

You also have the nostalgia problem. When the team gets good again, they won't be allowed to show tons of footage of those 70s/80s teams with the Indian logo on their helmets and apparel, the fans wearing headdresses full of feathers. No one in the media says the word "Redskins" so how they can even heap praise on the past without the pictures or the name?

Again, go expansion route and rebrand completely. The stink of the old name and stink of Snyder hover over that team like a bloated and rotting corpse. Starting over is easier than going back 30 years to a past few people remember anymore and reminding young fans you were the team with stubbornly stuck to an offensive name even when everyone else in the sports world knew it was time to give it up.
I mean your mindset isn't wrong, however there are plenty of Native American themed teams that do it respectfully and don't draw much backlash. Florida State Seminoles, Chicago Blackhawks, Atlanta Braves. For example. I know some people don't like the tomahawk chop but their names seem safe. The original Redskins logo was made by a native American artist. The issue was their name was once used as a slur. The Cleveland Indians decided to rebrand because their logo was pretty blatantly offensive and their name was frankly inaccurate.
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Old 07-26-2023, 08:18 AM
 
Location: Cumberland
6,999 posts, read 11,293,992 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Turnerbro View Post
I mean your mindset isn't wrong, however there are plenty of Native American themed teams that do it respectfully and don't draw much backlash. Florida State Seminoles, Chicago Blackhawks, Atlanta Braves. For example. I know some people don't like the tomahawk chop but their names seem safe. The original Redskins logo was made by a native American artist. The issue was their name was once used as a slur. The Cleveland Indians decided to rebrand because their logo was pretty blatantly offensive and their name was frankly inaccurate.
I know. Imagine a world where Danny Boy addressed this in 2000 or so to find a compromise, or didn't stick for way too long with the argument that "redskin" wasn't a bad word at all, and anyone who said otherwise was wrong.

The Guardindians is the worst name change ever, like they literally made a name change that allowed them to keep as many of the old letters in the name as possible to cut down on uniform embroidery costs.

You can't go back though to a sorta Indian name at this point, it would be national news for the entire football season, inspire fresh protests. The Ravens were forced to act like an expansion team in branding when the Browns name stayed in Cleveland, and that turned out alright.
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Old 07-26-2023, 02:50 PM
 
2,283 posts, read 3,929,742 times
Reputation: 2105
Quote:
Originally Posted by Turnerbro View Post
Because he got rich by selling your phone number to telemarketers.
That's pretty devious of him. He probably compiled the names and phone numbers from the white pages.
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Old 07-31-2023, 03:57 PM
 
13,648 posts, read 20,767,629 times
Reputation: 7650
Quote:
Originally Posted by westsideboy View Post
Nothing Red**** with a modified version of the song, or with dangling feathers, or anything that sniffs of "Redskins" will be accepted. It would be correctly seen as a way to keep the name without keeping the name, which in the mind of the people who demanded it be changed is just as bad. The only shot you guys had at that was the WFT, literally choosing no name, so everyone would remember there used to be a name we can't say anymore, but Danny Boy got rid of that too for the Kommodors, and I doubt WFT can come back now.

You also have the nostalgia problem. When the team gets good again, they won't be allowed to show tons of footage of those 70s/80s teams with the Indian logo on their helmets and apparel, the fans wearing headdresses full of feathers. No one in the media says the word "Redskins" so how they can even heap praise on the past without the pictures or the name?

Again, go expansion route and rebrand completely. The stink of the old name and stink of Snyder hover over that team like a bloated and rotting corpse. Starting over is easier than going back 30 years to a past few people remember anymore and reminding young fans you were the team with stubbornly stuck to an offensive name even when everyone else in the sports world knew it was time to give it up.
Nonsense.

The Miami University Redskins switched to Redhawks while the St Johns Redmen switched to Red Storm.

Switch it to Redhawks and use the Lombardi R logo from the early 70s. Change the lyrics of the song and we are in business. A Redhawk is an effin bird for Chrissakes.

Good grief, it was bad enought to ditch Redskins. We cannot keep catering to stupidity. It's not like the Earth opened up and swallowed people and call me crazy, but I doubt the plight of the indigenous peoples of the Americas has improved one iota because a football team does not call itself the <gasp!> Redskins.
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Old 07-31-2023, 06:37 PM
 
Location: Mount Airy, Maryland
16,269 posts, read 10,395,161 times
Reputation: 27575
Quote:
Originally Posted by Turnerbro View Post
Redskins isn't coming back. New owner doesn't want that controversy. However I would like something that starts with Red. Such as Redwolves or Redhawks. The theme song could comeback.
This is how I have always felt, Redhawks or Redwolves were my picks as well. I don't want to get into the politics of the name change but I fully supported it. But I sure miss the name Redskins and the helmet, I can not latch on to Commanders and those amateurish uniforms. They just smell of Daniel Snyder and even though I am excited for the future, at least finally they have a chance, I still can't get fully back just yet.
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Old 08-01-2023, 10:21 AM
 
Location: Cumberland
6,999 posts, read 11,293,992 times
Reputation: 6268
Quote:
Originally Posted by Moth View Post
Nonsense.

The Miami University Redskins switched to Redhawks while the St Johns Redmen switched to Red Storm.

Switch it to Redhawks and use the Lombardi R logo from the early 70s. Change the lyrics of the song and we are in business. A Redhawk is an effin bird for Chrissakes.

Good grief, it was bad enought to ditch Redskins. We cannot keep catering to stupidity. It's not like the Earth opened up and swallowed people and call me crazy, but I doubt the plight of the indigenous peoples of the Americas has improved one iota because a football team does not call itself the <gasp!> Redskins.
Miami made the switch in 1997, St. Johns became the Red Storm in 1994. If the Washington Redskins had made the change then, when others were doing the same, they absolutely could have kept a modified song, name, and apparel and nobody would care today.

What makes it impossible now is how long they waited. The window to be subtle about the name change has closed, it's 2023, the world has changed.

This isn't about 'right' or 'wrong' to me, it's just the reality on the ground in the world we live in and my best advice for marketing......start fresh because Danny ruined the brand beyond repair.
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Old 08-01-2023, 12:53 PM
 
13,648 posts, read 20,767,629 times
Reputation: 7650
Quote:
Originally Posted by westsideboy View Post
Miami made the switch in 1997, St. Johns became the Red Storm in 1994. If the Washington Redskins had made the change then, when others were doing the same, they absolutely could have kept a modified song, name, and apparel and nobody would care today.

What makes it impossible now is how long they waited. The window to be subtle about the name change has closed, it's 2023, the world has changed.

This isn't about 'right' or 'wrong' to me, it's just the reality on the ground in the world we live in and my best advice for marketing......start fresh because Danny ruined the brand beyond repair.
If the world has changed as much as you claim, then why are Miami U's and SJU's names still acceptable?

We are talking about a name (Redhawks, Redwolves, etc) that has NOTHING to do with Native Americans. Therefore, it's none of their damn business.

Not to mention that dumping the name Redskins never had a majority of support from anybody including Native Americans, who by all counts largely reveled in the name themselves. The name change was the perfect example of how policy can be made by small groups of people who bypass consensus and use loud doses of vitriol, half-truths, and ginned up nonsense to achieve their goals.

Furthermore, while I don't care the Atlanta Braves, the KC Chiefs, and the Chicago Blackhawks are now the targets. We are out.

Danny ruined the brand for a time, but now he is gone. It is time to get back to what made this franchise great. That starts with dumping the Commanders name- a name nearly everyone despises- and getting it right. Getting it right means a non-crontroversial name that nods to the past without any connection to Native Americans - a people that curiously do not have red colored skin.

I go back to the Over the Hill Gang. I just spent a quarter century stuck between an arrogant lunatic of an owner and a foaming at the mouth tribe of delusional Bolsheviks. They best change it to red something or I am going to Green Bay.

HTTR!
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Old 08-01-2023, 01:46 PM
 
Location: Cumberland
6,999 posts, read 11,293,992 times
Reputation: 6268
Quote:
Originally Posted by Moth View Post
If the world has changed as much as you claim, then why are Miami U's and SJU's names still acceptable?

We are talking about a name (Redhawks, Redwolves, etc) that has NOTHING to do with Native Americans. Therefore, it's none of their damn business.

Not to mention that dumping the name Redskins never had a majority of support from anybody including Native Americans, who by all counts largely reveled in the name themselves. The name change was the perfect example of how policy can be made by small groups of people who bypass consensus and use loud doses of vitriol, half-truths, and ginned up nonsense to achieve their goals.

Furthermore, while I don't care the Atlanta Braves, the KC Chiefs, and the Chicago Blackhawks are now the targets. We are out.

Danny ruined the brand for a time, but now he is gone. It is time to get back to what made this franchise great. That starts with dumping the Commanders name- a name nearly everyone despises- and getting it right. Getting it right means a non-crontroversial name that nods to the past without any connection to Native Americans - a people that curiously do not have red colored skin.

I go back to the Over the Hill Gang. I just spent a quarter century stuck between an arrogant lunatic of an owner and a foaming at the mouth tribe of delusional Bolsheviks. They best change it to red something or I am going to Green Bay.

HTTR!
Because nobody under 30 even remembers those old names, and if they did, it would take a mountain of effort to get enough other under 30-somethings together to start the ole' cancel culture Twitter storm for something there isn't enough good archival Youtube footage to review. When those changes were made over a 1/4 century ago, it was enough of a change to satisfy people and the new brands have had decades to cement.

In 2020, nothing close to the original Redskin name was going to work. Look, "Redhawks" was already being used as a "f-you Snyder, not going to say Redskin back in 2017"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Washington_Redhawks

Here is what Danny Boy's team said: "This morning, the Redskins organization was made aware of fraudulent websites about our team name. The name of the team is the Washington Redskins and will remain that for the future."

As late as 2017, Redhawks probably would have worked, and Danny thumbed his nose again and refused to consider ANYTHING. All of the post 2016 election stuff + BLM + George Floyd + Dylan Roof has dramatically changed the way in which 'offensive' names, symbols, and rhetoric is viewed. That change in attitude is seen in the end of Aunt Jemima, Uncle Ben, and other 'offensive' brand names. Nothing close counted there either, it was TOTAL change or keep facing the scrutiny of the Twitter mob by 2020. I see nothing in 2023 that indicates the world has "soft eyes" towards 1/2 hearted attempts to be less offensive, that age has passed, it was called "the 1990s" and the franchise missed it.

Danny came around somewhere between 5-30 years too late, and I am not the person who makes the rules, I am just a person watching this stuff happen like you.
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