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Can't justify it economically. There's just not enough market demand.
I honestly think it'll work now though, but it'll be different.
I say just run trains on short trips, this is how it should go
Red line: Silver Spring to Dupont Circle - 20 minute frequency
Orange line: Ballston to Minnesota Ave - 25 minute frequency
Blue line: No service
Yellow line: Mt. Vernon Square to Reagan National Airport - 30 minute frequency
Green line: Fort Totten to Anacostia - 25 minute frequency
^ Stations outside that would be shut down.
With all this development going up and population booming, we're gonna need NYC type of service this decade.
I'm sorry I don't think its a good idea. It'll discourage people from coming into the District. I'm not sure it will discourage companies from relocating to the city but it certainly won't make the District more competitive with the Dulles and 270 corridors.
Also it'll hurt District residents since so many do leave the city limits for shopping and increasingly for work. I've met more and more reverse commuters and have considered becoming one of them. Getting from VA to the District is enough of a hassle with the limited number of bridges, a toll would make matters worse.
If it's like the London Congestion Charge then people who live in DC would be exempt from it.
Actually I didn't see any purpose in it for SF...it just felt like one more nail in the coffin of SF trying to extract every last penny it possibly could from whoever it could.
Perhaps those tolls pay for those very expensive bridges?
No city in America currently has a "cordon" congestion price. Many toll roads, including the Dulles Greenway in this region, have higher tolls at peak hours. The results in from cities like Singapore, London, and Stockholm has shown that congestion pricing generally results in few ill effects.
Businesses wouldn't leave, actually. Being in the city gives equal access to people coming from all parts of the metro, versus "choosing a side" and closing off access to half of the metro area. Many employers, most notably GSA, recognize that a central location and Metro access are necessary to recruiting and retaining a wide spectrum of employees.
[An interesting tool for comparing how transit-accessible different locations are: http://www.mapnificent.net/washington. Try comparing a location in downtown DC to ones in the suburbs, and look at how vast parts of the metro area suddenly become inaccessible.]
Many firms in the city are here to be close to other firms in the city, the main one being the federal decision-makers. (Trust me: they're not here for the low cost of living, or the superb weather, or the great beaches.) And, in turn, plenty of talented people move here to work for them, and they in turn attract other businesses that want to hire said people. That agglomeration effect actually works better when congestion is lessened.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ACWhite
I live just across the river in Arlington and can tell you there are many, many vehicles from DC and MD... parking in the stores' and shopping center lots, etc.
At least they're paying significant sales taxes to Virginia. A lot of auto commuters into DC pay very little of their income to the District, even though they use lots of DC services.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Internal Breathing Fire
I say just run [night] trains on short trips, this is how it should go
Can't. The system was built with few turnarounds, and there's not enough money to be made by adding them.
At least they're paying significant sales taxes to Virginia. A lot of auto commuters into DC pay very little of their income to the District, even though they use lots of DC services.
The DC/MD to VA drivers are not necessarily paying any more VA tax than the auto commuters into DC are paying, since some of the latter are coming in to shop in Georgetown or go to restaurants, etc. Further, not all of the DC folks are shopping in VA--and those who are "shopping" may not be buying -- for example, if you ever go to the Pentagon City Mall or Tysons, you'll see a lot of people with no shopping bags. Grocery store food is taxed at a very low rate. But many other DC and MD residents are coming for jobs, doctor appointments, and other non-taxable events, just as VA to DC commuters may be doing the same.
And many of us (going both ways, but particularly those coming from VA) simply cross the river, drive about a mile, and are at work. People are not going to live in VA if they have to drive over a lot of roads to work in DC NE, for example. So they really aren't using many roads or services.
I think you would really be surprised at how many DC and MD license plates you see in, at least, Arlington. A toll going one way would surely be followed by a toll going the other way.
It seems to me that the two major problems are the questionable stewardship of some of the taxes and the amount of real property owned by the non-tax-paying Fed. govt. and other non-taxable entities.
Perhaps those tolls pay for those very expensive bridges?
No city in America currently has a "cordon" congestion price. Many toll roads, including the Dulles Greenway in this region, have higher tolls at peak hours. The results in from cities like Singapore, London, and Stockholm has shown that congestion pricing generally results in few ill effects.
Businesses wouldn't leave, actually. Being in the city gives equal access to people coming from all parts of the metro, versus "choosing a side" and closing off access to half of the metro area. Many employers, most notably GSA, recognize that a central location and Metro access are necessary to recruiting and retaining a wide spectrum of employees.
Many firms in the city are here to be close to other firms in the city, the main one being the federal decision-makers. (Trust me: they're not here for the low cost of living, or the superb weather, or the great beaches.) And, in turn, plenty of talented people move here to work for them, and they in turn attract other businesses that want to hire said people. That agglomeration effect actually works better when congestion is lessened.
At least they're paying significant sales taxes to Virginia. A lot of auto commuters into DC pay very little of their income to the District, even though they use lots of DC services.
Can't. The system was built with few turnarounds, and there's not enough money to be made by adding them.
There are switch tracks at or near every end point I just named
My response to the argument that congestion tolls would deter people from coming into DC and patronizing its businesses is the same as my response to the argument that DC's smoking ban would drive bar and restaurant patrons to Arlington and Montgomery County:
My response to the argument that congestion tolls would deter people from coming into DC and patronizing its businesses is the same as my response to the argument that DC's smoking ban would drive bar and restaurant patrons to Arlington and Montgomery County:
Yeah right.
Well now you can't smoke in VA restaurants either. Which is fine with me
My response to the argument that congestion tolls would deter people from coming into DC and patronizing its businesses is the same as my response to the argument that DC's smoking ban would drive bar and restaurant patrons to Arlington and Montgomery County:
Yeah right.
And my response would be that the fact that more white yuppies and guppies have decided over the past decade to live in places like Logan Circle and Columbia Heights doesn't quite justify this level of hubris. I think I'd try to secure the vote and ensure my local government had real power before I started comparing DC to either NY or London or proposing to turn the Roosevelt Bridge into the Holland Tunnel.
Bad idea, roads would have to be reconstructed for toll plazas within the bridges because the DC line is directly off the shoreline of Virginia and Virginia isn't going to allow DC to collect tolls on their side. Good intentions but one dimensional. Tolls would add on to the already congested roads in DC making getting in and out of DC worst.
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