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Old 06-03-2011, 12:09 PM
 
Location: Rockville, MD
3,546 posts, read 8,568,342 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluefly View Post
You'd be hard-pressed to tell the difference between several of the neighborhoods EOTR and several west of the park. I'm not saying their property values are the same, but in terms of livability, quality housing, safety, and just overall nice areas, they more than hold their own.
They may hold their own with some of the qualities you mention, but "premier" does not equate with "nice". When most people think of premier neighborhoods in DC, they think of neighborhoods like Capitol Hill, Dupont, Georgetown and so forth. One couldn't honestly compare any EOTR neighborhoods with those. DC has many "nice" neighborhoods, but premier denotes exclusivity in some way, and I just don't think the term could reasonably apply to a neighborhood like Dupont Park or Hillcrest. That's a significant inflation of those neighborhoods, IMHO.

Quote:
My broader point was that there are many parts EOTR more gentrified than the gentrifying areas west of it. So, it just seemed odd to say gentrification would never come to a place gentrification has already come.
Well, that gets to the question of what "gentrification" means. Many people look at neighborhoods like Logan Circle and Columbia Heights as examples of gentrified neighborhoods, due to the significant spike in real estate values, changing residential demographics, and development of dense, thriving commercial corridors witnessed over the last 10 to 15 years. Hillcrest is more of a residential neighborhood that never declined that significantly--it was never an Ivy City or Barry Farms, for example. It's more comparable to the quieter, all-residential neighborhoods along upper 16th Street. Pleasant, livable, but not dramatically different from what it was 20, 30 or 40 years ago. And there's next-to-no commercial development down there, so they're rather isolated neighborhoods in that regard. In all of Ward 7 there are three sit-down restaurants, I believe.
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Old 06-03-2011, 09:03 PM
 
11,155 posts, read 15,715,115 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 14thandYou View Post
They may hold their own with some of the qualities you mention, but "premier" does not equate with "nice". When most people think of premier neighborhoods in DC, they think of neighborhoods like Capitol Hill, Dupont, Georgetown and so forth. One couldn't honestly compare any EOTR neighborhoods with those. DC has many "nice" neighborhoods, but premier denotes exclusivity in some way, and I just don't think the term could reasonably apply to a neighborhood like Dupont Park or Hillcrest. That's a significant inflation of those neighborhoods, IMHO.



Well, that gets to the question of what "gentrification" means. Many people look at neighborhoods like Logan Circle and Columbia Heights as examples of gentrified neighborhoods, due to the significant spike in real estate values, changing residential demographics, and development of dense, thriving commercial corridors witnessed over the last 10 to 15 years. Hillcrest is more of a residential neighborhood that never declined that significantly--it was never an Ivy City or Barry Farms, for example. It's more comparable to the quieter, all-residential neighborhoods along upper 16th Street. Pleasant, livable, but not dramatically different from what it was 20, 30 or 40 years ago. And there's next-to-no commercial development down there, so they're rather isolated neighborhoods in that regard. In all of Ward 7 there are three sit-down restaurants, I believe.
Well, Hillcrest is quite sought after for portions of the powerful and upper middle class black community. To me, that gives it an air of exclusivity. I didn't mean to put it on par with Georgetown or Dupont, but there's a cache associated with living there. I sure couldn't afford it..

I think of gentrify in the "gentried class" sense. So, anywhere, whether it declined or not, that is suitable to that population, to me, is gentrified. I guess it has a political connotation more aligned with your definition and the notion of transition. Either way, imo.
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Old 06-04-2011, 09:51 PM
 
47 posts, read 93,874 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluefly View Post
I've heard Barry Farm might not exist much longer as straight public housing. I could be wrong on that.
my mom has a friend who actually lived there.. and i was there after 11 pm a few times..
she moved out, and last she knew they were supposed to tear them down.. this was 4-5 years ago.. and it hasn't happened yet..
there was this truck that drive through there playing go-go music.. and they would sell 40's, newports, blunt-wraps, etc off of this truck..
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Old 06-05-2011, 07:19 PM
 
5,125 posts, read 10,096,566 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluefly View Post
I didn't say anything about crime. You're going to tell me the ability to buy drugs on the street in Columbia Heights is anywhere near what it was 10-20 years ago? You just said on another thread that you came in from the suburbs and drove through Columbia Heights / Logan Circle area for the first time in a long time a couple weeks ago.

For those of us who live in this area and have been walking these streets for many years, I'm not sure you're qualified to be educating us about the evolution of the open-air drug market. It's vastly different and Minn Ave / Benning area will probably go through a similar (though not as extreme) transition to a more underground market in the near future once these mixed-use developments get built and that area becomes more of a destination for residents east of the river.
I didn't say that Columbia Heights isn't safer than it was 10-20 years ago, but only that there are clearly plenty of bad spots still there (as well as that Dupont wasn't as sketchy in the 80s as you implied in an earlier post). In my view, the contrasts are not quite as sharp as you suggested (and I also spend time in these areas more frequently than you just implied). Must you mischaracterize the posts of anyone who happens not to fully share your prognosis of the even-onward upward trajectory of every pocket of DC?

To give deference where deference is due, however, I will certainly acknowledge that you've been walking the streets of DC for a long time.

Last edited by JD984; 06-05-2011 at 08:10 PM..
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Old 06-14-2011, 04:28 PM
 
Location: Fairfax County, VA
3,718 posts, read 5,700,616 times
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When the Anacostia streetcar is finally built and connects when the Green and eventually Orange/Blue lines, could it help gentrify the neighborhoods that it goes through?
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Old 06-15-2011, 03:39 PM
 
Location: The Port City is rising.
8,868 posts, read 12,571,587 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JEB77 View Post
I think you exaggerate how sketchy Dupont was in the 80s and underestimate how sketchy parts of Columbia Heights remain today.

suppose someone substituted Adams Morgan for Dupont Circle? Then it would make more sense, no?

to add another data point, ISTR seeing a copy of washington mag back in the late 80s or early 90s,it had nabe appreciation figures between the late 1960s I think it was, and the "present" What was interesting is how much greater the appreciation was for Cleveland Park than for parts of upper NW farther, well, northwest. Which made sense, given that in the late 60's the areas east of Rock Creek adjacent near Cleveland Park were still VERY sketchy, I think. Not sure about Dupont Circle in the 1960s.
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Old 06-16-2011, 07:54 AM
 
Location: Springfield VA
4,036 posts, read 9,250,335 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brooklynborndad View Post
suppose someone substituted Adams Morgan for Dupont Circle? Then it would make more sense, no?

to add another data point, ISTR seeing a copy of washington mag back in the late 80s or early 90s,it had nabe appreciation figures between the late 1960s I think it was, and the "present" What was interesting is how much greater the appreciation was for Cleveland Park than for parts of upper NW farther, well, northwest. Which made sense, given that in the late 60's the areas east of Rock Creek adjacent near Cleveland Park were still VERY sketchy, I think. Not sure about Dupont Circle in the 1960s.
Are you sure you aren't confusing Cleveland Park with Mt. Pleasant? Cleveland Park is west of Rock Creek Park not east.
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Old 06-16-2011, 10:28 AM
 
Location: The Port City is rising.
8,868 posts, read 12,571,587 times
Reputation: 2604
Quote:
Originally Posted by terrence81 View Post
Are you sure you aren't confusing Cleveland Park with Mt. Pleasant? Cleveland Park is west of Rock Creek Park not east.

I meant that areas adjacent to Cleveland Park, but seperated from it by Rock Creek Park, apparently had an impact on pricing in Cleveland Park in the 1960s. ANd that the changes EAST of the park, resulted in a dramatic increase in prices in Cleveland Park, by the mid 1980s. That was the only thing I could think of why Cleveland Park, a nabe west of Rock Creek, but CLOSE to it, showed much higher appreciation (this is all going from memory mind you, I dont have a link) than neighborhoods further west/northwest.
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Old 03-26-2012, 10:34 AM
 
291 posts, read 635,266 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Teacher383940 View Post
You had me until you said Takoma. Now if you're meaning the parts CLOSER to Georgia ave, well yeah okay I can almost see it, but travel just a few blocks back to Blair and Cedar and Piney Branch (heading into Takoma Park MD) and its a very quiet middle class area. Believe me, I've seen enough ghetto in my life and if this area looked anything like "the hood" I'd be somewhere else. But I must agree with you on the other parts.
I was speaking in relative terms. Truthfully most of what we think of as "ghetto" around here would be the NICE areas of many cities around the country (just take a ride to Baltimore or Richmond to find some real down and out examples or drive even a little further afield and check out the lovely metropolises of Camden, Newark and Trenton in the fair Garden State). This is just to say that areas around the far northeastern part of the city seem a bit hollowed out and economically resistant to change. They're old, underutilized areas with a lot of worn out housing, relatively high crime, not much in the way of retail with the atrocious Coolidge High School serving the local student population. Like a lot of areas in DC it's quietly "ghetto". The areas around the Fort Totten metro station would also qualify in this distinction. This isn't to say they WON'T someday get more investment and perhaps that process is already starting. However, it's lagged behind other nearby areas such as Petworth, Park View or downtown Silver Spring and Takoma Park on the Maryland side.
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Old 03-26-2012, 10:40 AM
 
291 posts, read 635,266 times
Reputation: 663
Quote:
Originally Posted by bboyneko View Post
When most people say "Takoma" by itself, they mean Takoma DC. When most people say "Takoma Park" they mean the MD side.

So yeah, Takoma DC is relatively ghetto. Look at some of the housing along blair road when you ride on the metro. It seems to be changing however, nice places like My Little Bistro have opened up on the DC side, they installed art in the underpass and even the liquer store on the DC side is not coated in bullet-proof glass and is nice, even if the outside looks shabby. There are some expensive apartment that went up there too.

Takoma DC is changing, which will in turn change Downtown Takoma Park. For the better, I hope. It seems businesses don't always survive long when they open there. If more affluent DC residents move to Takoma DC, they will wander into downtown Takoma Park and help businesses survive.

As for Takoma Park MD being ghetto, the apartments along maple avenue can be shady, but I just moved to Takoma Park and I don't know if those apartments are changing for the better or worse.
Yeah, that was the area I was referring to, Takoma DC. See above post.
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