Advice on what it is like to live in DC (mortgage, townhouses)
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I'm not talking about the DC, I'm talking about outlying areas. People will still be moving there.
The growth expected further than Prince William county is not going to be very much. Prince William is included in the Metropolitan Council of Government's so they will also be building TOD around their commuter rail station's and trying to get Metro expanded to Gainsville VA and Woodbridge. VA
Thanks for the condolences, but LA is my idea of heaven. Perfect weather, a wide variety of indoor and outdoor shopping malls, and most importanty, ample parking and no need to ever take public transportation or walk if you don't want to.
You said almost exactly the same thing about Rockville, in another thread.. Dude, are you trolling? Malls is your idea of heaven? Really?
Thanks for the information. I lost my job here in LA and that's why thinking about going back to the East Coast. I would welcome any further suggestions about health education job opportunities. It sounds like overall DC is great place to live.
Thanks for the information. I lost my job here in LA and that's why thinking about going back to the East Coast. I would welcome any further suggestions about health education job opportunities. It sounds like overall DC is great place to live.
Health: Plenty of exercise activities and medical personnel
Education: Some of the best schools in the country at all levels
Job Opportunities: If you have a pulse you will have a job in no time.
Having just made this move and NOT regretting it in the least I can say that in the DC area I found:
Much better public transportation - this isn't even close
Real people who will talk to you and are friendly
A community that is active and welcoming
A job with 50% less responsibility for 20% more salary
Affordable housing
Let me explain some of that - I came from San Diego but lived in LA and spent a lot of time up there. It has some great strengths but some really negative downsides. I lived in that area 23 years so I have a perspective that's deep enough to comment (vs. "Oh I love it I vacationed there" or "I lived there in college" or something which is just not enough to really give you a good idea).
I live in Greenbelt now (not DC itself) and the community is very welcoming. To the point that several parents I met online arranged for my daughter to meet up with their kids to be shown around when we moved. Not once in 23 years did I ever see anything like where I lived in CA. My daughter has friends here that are diverse - CA was far far far more cliquish and in her high school there (a very GOOD high school) you couldn't cross friends groups - you were stuck. Here that is not the case that she's encountered at all.
I applied for 5 jobs and got 2nd interviews at 3 of them out here - and chose the one I wanted. I love my job - the responsibilities here are more in line with having a life for me. They are equitable for the pay. NOT so in CA. There I basically did 2 jobs for FAR less pay and this was absolutely common across my colleagues too. Here I actually GET a weekend - in CA I worked over 80 hours a week (for 20% less than I make here). In my field for my staff the EXACT same job here starts at $33K and it started at $21K in CA. Required: Bachelors degree. That is very typical from what I'm finding - the salaries out here are dramatically better. Unemployment is less....but underemployment to me was the far larger problem. In the year before I left for entry level jobs (those pesky $21K ones) I would get upwards of 200+ applications - I got them from people with Ph.D.'s, engineering degrees, you name it. Hired two engineers for a beginning clerical job - that is underemployment.
Depending on where you live housing can be much cheaper out here. Where I am it is far cheaper but VA and other areas of MD seem higher. Overall it's not really any different. Don't base your comparison on a search -- LA is NOTORIOUS for advertising areas as high price like Beverly Hills and it turns out it is REALLY sort of adjacent. Just like here addresses don't tell the whole story. However there is more housing stock in CA so it may be that you can get a deal. My friend has a cute little 900 sq ft place in Burbank - cute little cottage with 2 tiny bedrooms and small yard with a little koi pond - current value? $676K. I'm not seeing stuff like that out here but then I'm not looking much either beyond where I'm at.
As for the people - come on out..I've been here three months and have only had one sort of bad experience. People are NICE out here, friendly, and I've had no problem starting deeper friend relationships so far. I do 100% more things out here than I did in CA - I found CA to be superficially nice but not in a deeper way - it was hard to make true friends. Plenty of acquaintances but friends not so much. As a single divorced woman in her 40's I can also say that I've already dated out here and been asked out multiple times. I hadn't been on a date in CA for 3 years. I take care of myself, work out, eat right and I don't really look my age. People are just friendlier here and dating is not the drama it was for me in CA. That's individual though - don't know how that would transfer.
You could not pay me to go back to CA at this point. Nearly 10% sales tax, paying $240 a year to license my car, and going nowhere fast on a salary that was barely affording me a crappy 2 bedroom old apartment (note: CA does not do remodeling -- so if you have an apt from the 70's it will have the original everything - this is slowly changing but many folks have commented on this)
And traffic - bad in both places. San Diego was not bad at all comparatively. Let's compare going to a NHL game -- go to a Ducks game at the Pond in Anaheim (don't even get me started on Staples center and the Kings) -- from San Diego 2 hours up -- from parts of LA North about 2 hours depending (the Valley is a 2 hour drive in traffic on average to there) - though my friend in Burbank could work some magic to get to the Pond in about 50 minutes. To get out of the parking lot after the game? 45 minutes to an hour. Another hour home (or 2 to San Diego without accidents or issues). So 2 1/2 hours on average if I was in LA and 5-6 hours if I was coming from San Diego (87 miles away). Parking cost at Honda center? $20 + however much in gas.
To go to a Caps game I drive 1 mile to the metro. 7 minutes. Get on the Metro about a 20-25 minute ride and I'm at Verizon. Ditto the way home. Less than an hour. Cost? $4.25 parking and about $7 round trip to ride weekday more rush hour -- cheaper on weekends.
My daughter and I go into DC all the time - we have a great time exploring and I never have to worry about parking. There are some caveats - neither of us is outdoorsy - so I don't care about the beach I only went 2-4x a year anyway. We like arts, culture, unique outings, more intellectual stuff - and history. DC area and East Coast is way better for us.
Each coast has its strength but I'm not at all crazy and I could not escape CA fast enough. Weather is not everything -- it is when you are 20 but at double that? weather is so far down the list it's not even funny. Beach time? yeah I'm working 80 hours -- when do I have time for the beach? I didn't find CA more laid back either - the pressure to live beyond your means, buy beyond your means, and demonstrate that in a physical way like owning a BMW is much higher than here - at least the area I'm at.
Different strokes and all that. I tend to advise folks that are young and can live with 3-5 roomates and just want to have fun to go to CA. Why not? No better time. But when you get older, have kids, and start to think about retirement, costs, home ownership -- choices look different from that view.
Having just made this move and NOT regretting it in the least I can say that in the DC area I found:
Unemployment is less....but underemployment to me was the far larger problem. In the year before I left for entry level jobs (those pesky $21K ones) I would get upwards of 200+ applications - I got them from people with Ph.D.'s, engineering degrees, you name it. Hired two engineers for a beginning clerical job - that is underemployment.
You know that was the problem that led me to move up here. Underemployment and I had two jobs. One time I even had three and still had the lights turned off because none of them were full time and matching my level of experience and education i.e, minimum wage. Ironically enough my hometown was just named "brokest" city in America.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JosephineBeth
Depending on where you live housing can be much cheaper out here. Where I am it is far cheaper but VA and other areas of MD seem higher. My friend has a cute little 900 sq ft place in Burbank - cute little cottage with 2 tiny bedrooms and small yard with a little koi pond - current value? $676K. I'm not seeing stuff like that out here but then I'm not looking much either beyond where I'm at.
Interesting. I remember looking at listings for LA and San Diego and it seemed to be way way cheaper out there. Then again I was just being a lookey loo wasn't thinking about moving to the west coast.
There are a few places in the city like that. There are places in Atlanta like that so I guess every city has its expensive areas.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JosephineBeth
We like arts, culture, unique outings, more intellectual stuff - and history. DC area and East Coast is way better for us.
Each coast has its strength but I'm not at all crazy and I could not escape CA fast enough.
The thing is that Washington, DC IS Southern California on the East Coast.
What do we share in common with SoCal?
1. God awful congested highways and roads stretching from Baltimore to Annapolis to Germantown to Leesburg to Manassas to Fredericksburg. The Capital Beltway is a parking lot during rush hour periods and on weekends.
2. HIGH, HIGH cost of living. Housing costs have consumed a greater share of personal income for DC-area residents compared to like 30 years ago when this region had fewer federal government dollars pumped into the local economy. Needless to say, DC housing prices are officially in the San Francisco/Los Angeles real estate stratosphere.
3. As Josephine noted in her post, DC jobs offer a more competitive salary commensurate with experience and education. But I have to caution newcomers like Josephine by telling the truth: many employees working in the DC region are getting paid in "Bubble Dollars". There is so much money distributed by federal government spending initiatives that many local businesses reap the rewards. They can hire and offer generous salaries because the cash is there. Yes, many talented and ambitious individuals are well-compensated here but there are many mediocre & lazy professionals who are overpaid in the DC job market as well.
Southern California had a booming economy at one time when defense spending manufacturing plants were humming and the big Hollywood studios made a concerted effort to build the LA economy with numerous local filming projects. The ever expansive desert land created huge job opportunities for real estate professionals and the housing construction industry...not to mention infrastructure engineering jobs.
Those days are gone in SoCal. The jobs are gone and the big paychecks have disappeared too. Unfortunately, the poorer Californians are still stuck with the gigantic home mortgage; they are ASSET-RICH but cash poor and the SoCal residents have no place to go except to pack up the moving truck and head East for better opportunities and a more affordable quality of life.
As long as the federal government keeps "Pump Priming" the Washington, DC area economy, the Big Public Spending Bubble will continue to create jobs and killer paychecks. But the Bubble is unsustainable in the long-term. The nation's economy is in permanent decline and our standards of living with it. Congress and the White House will finally wake up to the reality that you can't keep throwing tens of billions of dollars at Pentagon and Homeland Security projects managed by local contracting firms. Add a couple of billion more in cuts against private sector companies managing HHS, DOT, and Dept. of Energy contracts. Throw in some serious campaign finance reform laws and enforcement mechanisms and watch DC law firms and trade associations practice scorched earth job cuts.
Then timmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmber....Washington, DC becomes just like Southern California where you have asset-rich people with expensive mortgages but NO cash in the bank account. And that point, you mind as well take the moving truck back out West and enjoy some of that fine California weather.
The thing is that Washington, DC IS Southern California on the East Coast.
What do we share in common with SoCal?
1. God awful congested highways and roads stretching from Baltimore to Annapolis to Germantown to Leesburg to Manassas to Fredericksburg. The Capital Beltway is a parking lot during rush hour periods and on weekends.
2. HIGH, HIGH cost of living. Housing costs have consumed a greater share of personal income for DC-area residents compared to like 30 years ago when this region had fewer federal government dollars pumped into the local economy. Needless to say, DC housing prices are officially in the San Francisco/Los Angeles real estate stratosphere.
3. As Josephine noted in her post, DC jobs offer a more competitive salary commensurate with experience and education. But I have to caution newcomers like Josephine by telling the truth: many employees working in the DC region are getting paid in "Bubble Dollars". There is so much money distributed by federal government spending initiatives that many local businesses reap the rewards. They can hire and offer generous salaries because the cash is there. Yes, many talented and ambitious individuals are well-compensated here but there are many mediocre & lazy professionals who are overpaid in the DC job market as well.
Southern California had a booming economy at one time when defense spending manufacturing plants were humming and the big Hollywood studios made a concerted effort to build the LA economy with numerous local filming projects. The ever expansive desert land created huge job opportunities for real estate professionals and the housing construction industry...not to mention infrastructure engineering jobs.
Those days are gone in SoCal. The jobs are gone and the big paychecks have disappeared too. Unfortunately, the poorer Californians are still stuck with the gigantic home mortgage; they are ASSET-RICH but cash poor and the SoCal residents have no place to go except to pack up the moving truck and head East for better opportunities and a more affordable quality of life.
As long as the federal government keeps "Pump Priming" the Washington, DC area economy, the Big Public Spending Bubble will continue to create jobs and killer paychecks. But the Bubble is unsustainable in the long-term. The nation's economy is in permanent decline and our standards of living with it. Congress and the White House will finally wake up to the reality that you can't keep throwing tens of billions of dollars at Pentagon and Homeland Security projects managed by local contracting firms. Add a couple of billion more in cuts against private sector companies managing HHS, DOT, and Dept. of Energy contracts. Throw in some serious campaign finance reform laws and enforcement mechanisms and watch DC law firms and trade associations practice scorched earth job cuts.
Then timmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmber....Washington, DC becomes just like Southern California where you have asset-rich people with expensive mortgages but NO cash in the bank account. And that point, you mind as well take the moving truck back out West and enjoy some of that fine California weather.
Great post!
The smugness of the "D.C. is better and smarter because we have jobs here" crowd is pathetic. These "superior folks" are in for the same rude awakening that folks had in L.A. in the early 1980s, Texas in the late 1980s, Southern California (again) in the early 1990s, San Jose in 2001 and the Central Valley in 2008.
Mathematics precludes taxing and spending forever...
The thing is that Washington, DC IS Southern California on the East Coast.
What do we share in common with SoCal?
1. God awful congested highways and roads stretching from Baltimore to Annapolis to Germantown to Leesburg to Manassas to Fredericksburg. The Capital Beltway is a parking lot during rush hour periods and on weekends.
2. HIGH, HIGH cost of living. Housing costs have consumed a greater share of personal income for DC-area residents compared to like 30 years ago when this region had fewer federal government dollars pumped into the local economy. Needless to say, DC housing prices are officially in the San Francisco/Los Angeles real estate stratosphere.
3. As Josephine noted in her post, DC jobs offer a more competitive salary commensurate with experience and education. But I have to caution newcomers like Josephine by telling the truth: many employees working in the DC region are getting paid in "Bubble Dollars". There is so much money distributed by federal government spending initiatives that many local businesses reap the rewards. They can hire and offer generous salaries because the cash is there. Yes, many talented and ambitious individuals are well-compensated here but there are many mediocre & lazy professionals who are overpaid in the DC job market as well.
Southern California had a booming economy at one time when defense spending manufacturing plants were humming and the big Hollywood studios made a concerted effort to build the LA economy with numerous local filming projects. The ever expansive desert land created huge job opportunities for real estate professionals and the housing construction industry...not to mention infrastructure engineering jobs.
Those days are gone in SoCal. The jobs are gone and the big paychecks have disappeared too. Unfortunately, the poorer Californians are still stuck with the gigantic home mortgage; they are ASSET-RICH but cash poor and the SoCal residents have no place to go except to pack up the moving truck and head East for better opportunities and a more affordable quality of life.
As long as the federal government keeps "Pump Priming" the Washington, DC area economy, the Big Public Spending Bubble will continue to create jobs and killer paychecks. But the Bubble is unsustainable in the long-term. The nation's economy is in permanent decline and our standards of living with it. Congress and the White House will finally wake up to the reality that you can't keep throwing tens of billions of dollars at Pentagon and Homeland Security projects managed by local contracting firms. Add a couple of billion more in cuts against private sector companies managing HHS, DOT, and Dept. of Energy contracts. Throw in some serious campaign finance reform laws and enforcement mechanisms and watch DC law firms and trade associations practice scorched earth job cuts.
Then timmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmber....Washington, DC becomes just like Southern California where you have asset-rich people with expensive mortgages but NO cash in the bank account. And that point, you mind as well take the moving truck back out West and enjoy some of that fine California weather.
I agree..the giant scythe of the grim reaper is almost upon the DC area. Just look all the proposals laid out by the Super-committee. There will be massive cuts to federal contractors.
I do need to say I am well aware of what happened in SoCal in the 90's. I lived there then and I saw it. Having gone through good and extremely low times in SoCal it's not that I don't think it cannot happen here or I am painting a rosy picture of it being so great out here forever and ever...but for right now it's the better place to be.
You gotta know that 23 years is a long time - to invest in a community, building relationships, developing networks, all that. I didn't take the decision lightly or without an incredible amount of thought and planning. I made lists, made comparisons, examined data, projections, in short I did my homework. I do not work for the Federal government nor a contractor.
I'm not going to end up with that mortgage I cannot pay. I've got a down payment and I intentionally moved to an area (Greenbelt) where I can afford a home when I'm ready. I watched nearly all of my friends go belly up and loose their houses/cars/etc. In my neighborhood in San Diego the CHEAPEST condo (there are not a ton of townhouses there--except in some newer developments) was $250K. This is well within my means but more than I want to spend. In contrast the home I currently rent (townhouse) would price out about $145K. It's not huge - doesn't have a big yard or the cred that a nice big house in a nice newer neighborhood might give it...but I can OWN it with a low mortgage that I could afford and can plan to cover in case anything happened.
Personally I don't see that much difference for folks that move out to the DC area and want to live on Dupont Circle on a clerks salary. It's about realism. What can you afford - what are you willing to sacrifice - I can say I would NOT have moved out here to go live and pay some really high rent in Arlington or in a trendy neighborhood in DC -- the choices I made were made be design. I valued having access to mass transportation that was effective - I wanted to be close to a NHL team, I wanted things to do and be involved with and a urban environment -- so I am well aware I could have a lower cost of living in another place but not with what I wanted. The COL is a trade off for what you perceive the benefits to be. It's all about how that balance and mix does it for you.
IMHO what I saw in CA -- and maybe it exists here but I'm not part of it because I chose a different way -- is that folks were in way over their heads...NO WAY to ever TRULY afford the mortgage..living on the promise of a refi later down the road -- and keeping up with the Joneses with BMW's, Mercedes, fancy vacations, etc.
Personally I really do love it here - warts and all. That's an o.k. thing. Not everyone thinks CA is the dream we should all be living. For some it certainly is -- great for them. I still really like CA -- but I don't want to live there. I am very happy with my decision and don't regret it at all. That's all I was saying as well as providing some things I found to be true.
Last edited by JosephineBeth; 11-04-2011 at 03:25 PM..
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