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This is where the simpleton view is destroying this movement. I presume some recent college grad heard a lot of lobbyists work on K Street, so they came up with this awful idea, completely ignoring the huge concentration of nonprofits, think tanks, and educational institutions like National Geographic fighting FOR the very causes this Occupy movement claims to support. Such professional advocates also work and commute through downtown, using MASS TRANSIT that serves the poor rather than cars that serve the rich!
And you attack them. This is why your movement fails. It is eating its own.
You have to break some eggs to make an omelet bluefly. Those places will not be put out of business, they will just be inconvenienced. Besides, those types need to hear the message, not tune out on an Ipad.
You have to break some eggs to make an omelet bluefly. Those places will not be put out of business, they will just be inconvenienced. Besides, those types need to hear the message, not tune out on an Ipad.
Wrong. They are the message. They work for the message every day. They do not need to hear it. They do not need to be inconvenienced or made angry. These young protesters have a great deal to learn about targeting their message to the proper institutions / people, not just clogging up an egalitarian transportation system which the 1% mostly do not use.
Wrong. They are the message. They work for the message every day. They do not need to hear it. They do not need to be inconvenienced or made angry. These young protesters have a great deal to learn about targeting their message to the proper institutions / people, not just clogging up an egalitarian transportation system which the 1% mostly do not use.
Well I don't control what they do, so there is no use getting mad at me about it. It is a leaderless movement.
I suggest taking a cab or Metrobus if you don't want to be around the protest that day.
Or better yet the people at the think tanks should joint the movement and occupy the subway, instead of being peeved about their commute.
Well I don't control what they do, so there is no use getting mad at me about it. It is a leaderless movement.
I suggest taking a cab or Metrobus if you don't want to be around the protest that day.
Or better yet the people at the think tanks should joint the movement and occupy the subway, instead of being peeved about their commute.
You're part of the movement - claiming you have done organizing for it - so you are as cupable as anybody of this leaderless movement.
Your elitist solution to take an expensive cab ride reveals the profound disconnect between the reality of those struggling in this economy and the tactics used to shut down inexpensive modes of transportation.
You're part of the movement - claiming you have done organizing for it - so you are as cupable as anybody of this leaderless movement.
Your elitist solution to take an expensive cab ride reveals the profound disconnect between the reality of those struggling in this economy and the tactics used to shut down inexpensive modes of transportation.
So misguided.
The cab is for the high rollers at the think tanks doing God's work...
Metrobus isn't expensive. And there is always the option of getting into work early or staying late at work if you can't bear to see other people fighting for your rights.
The cab is for the high rollers at the think tanks doing God's work...
Metrobus isn't expensive. And there is always the option of getting into work early or staying late at work if you can't bear to see other people fighting for your rights.
This didn't impact me and you're completely missing the point. The growing evidence of elitism in this Occupy movement is sad, to say the least. People were notified of this action through twitter, email, and other alerts before it happened, thus compelling many to drive (and consume oil) when they otherwise would not have. Taking a bus or cab with all that extra traffic is not a sound solution.
The point is that, by attacking mass transit, these elitist protesters are inflicting harm upon the 99% they claim to support. You're aware, I'm sure, that they've been camped out in DC for several months now. Not sure why you think they haven't expanded to DC yet. They just need to target their ire against the institutions responsible, like they are in NYC, not going after normal people.
I am truly amazed at your hostility and poor understanding of social events facing this country right now. The protestors are not asking for handouts. They want deep institutional reform inside our political system. A more transparent democracy where the ties between the wealthiest Americans and our political officials are exposed and then changed so citizens of modest means have the SAME influence. Campaign finance reform would be a good place to start.
Right now, the biggest corporations and the plutocrats have enormous influence over policy decisions. Decisions that shape our tax structure. Decisions that impact the distribution of wealth. Decisions that benefit certain special interests to the detriment of the majority of citizens. Voting for a politician whether he has an "R" or a "D" after his name has not solved anything. Elections are a farce in this country.
Bluefly, you have a curious definition of what a "normal person" is. Not everyone aspires to be a business executive or an engineer who can make products for the market. Not everyone aspires to be a casino junkie by purchasing, trading or selling property, bonds, commodity items, currency, stocks, etc. etc. Not everyone aspires to be a hustler so he can have the big house, the fancy car, tropical vacations and sending kids to exclusive private schools. People deserve to live without fear of going bankrupt or losing health care coverage just because they followed a different lifestyle philosophy. A lifestyle that does NOT involve chasing after big dollars.
Right now, economic inequality in the United States is reaching dangerous levels. The rich are getting a greater share of wealth pie while the middle-class continues to shrink. We could be approaching Weimer Republic chaos. If this doesn't bother you then I don't know what to tell you.
Running to the stores and buying tons of imported crappy products is not the ideal happiness. In fact, I think more "normal people" are realizing that working long hours and buying tons of consumer products do not lead to a fulfilling life after all. Consumer demand has been flat for some time now and it's not because everyone is broke: they are wising up by saving money and living a healthier lifestyle free from consumer product garbage promoted on TV and the internet.
No, the majority of "normal people" have NOT abandoned their sympathies to the OWS movement as you smugly claim in your post. When cops are beating and pepper spraying peaceful demonstrators in city parks and college campuses; public opinion will become more positive of the OWS movement as time moves along. "Normal people" have serious struggles in their lives and they are realizing that the corporate bosses and public officials don't give a rat's behind about them.
And you were never a supporter of the OWS movement to begin with. If you do not understand the REASONS for the uprising, you are not a supporter. If you continue to label the protestors as the PROBLEM while making everyone else a VICTIM of the OWS protests, you are not a supporter. You worship the Market Economy Gods out of fear because you are afraid of change. You can be bribed. You accept the messages coming from big corporate bosses, corporate media reporters, corporate-backed think tanks and our political officials without genuine questioning. The world today is the END OF HISTORY according to your philosophy. You sleep better at night knowing this.
You must open your mind to new ideas, Bluefly. History is still evolving and it's not too late to be on right side of history.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluefly
Your posts have revealed a very limited and often misguided grasp of our political and economic system. I get that you're angry that you can't compete in the modern economy because you can't do what you want and make a living at it, but claiming you are owed something for doing nothing or attacking normal people making normal livings is extremely misguided for your predominantly youth movement.
Just think back to your prior suggestion that people should use money to create one job each. It just shows the lack of understanding of how people collectively do that by purchasing products and services, not just picking someone out and paying them to dig a useless hole.
Your movement had 3/4 of Americans supporting you at one point. Now you are attacking those same people. The movement is failing, collapsing into squallor, violence, and public health decay. Many of us sympathizers are growing embarrassed for the protesters.
I am truly amazed at your hostility and poor understanding of social events facing this country right now. The protestors are not asking for handouts. They want deep institutional reform inside our political system. A more transparent democracy where the ties between the wealthiest Americans and our political officials are exposed and then changed so citizens of modest means have the SAME influence. Campaign finance reform would be a good place to start.
Right now, the biggest corporations and the plutocrats have enormous influence over policy decisions. Decisions that shape our tax structure. Decisions that impact the distribution of wealth. Decisions that benefit certain special interests to the detriment of the majority of citizens. Voting for a politician whether he has an "R" or a "D" after his name has not solved anything. Elections are a farce in this country.
Bluefly, you have a curious definition of what a "normal person" is. Not everyone aspires to be a business executive or an engineer who can make products for the market. Not everyone aspires to be a casino junkie by purchasing, trading or selling property, bonds, commodity items, currency, stocks, etc. etc. Not everyone aspires to be a hustler so he can have the big house, the fancy car, tropical vacations and sending kids to exclusive private schools. People deserve to live without fear of going bankrupt or losing health care coverage just because they followed a different lifestyle philosophy. A lifestyle that does NOT involve chasing after big dollars.
Right now, economic inequality in the United States is reaching dangerous levels. The rich are getting a greater share of wealth pie while the middle-class continues to shrink. We could be approaching Weimer Republic chaos. If this doesn't bother you then I don't know what to tell you.
Running to the stores and buying tons of imported crappy products is not the ideal happiness. In fact, I think more "normal people" are realizing that working long hours and buying tons of consumer products do not lead to a fulfilling life after all. Consumer demand has been flat for some time now and it's not because everyone is broke: they are wising up by saving money and living a healthier lifestyle free from consumer product garbage promoted on TV and the internet.
No, the majority of "normal people" have NOT abandoned their sympathies to the OWS movement as you smugly claim in your post. When cops are beating and pepper spraying peaceful demonstrators in city parks and college campuses; public opinion will become more positive of the OWS movement as time moves along. "Normal people" have serious struggles in their lives and they are realizing that the corporate bosses and public officials don't give a rat's behind about them.
And you were never a supporter of the OWS movement to begin with. If you do not understand the REASONS for the uprising, you are not a supporter. If you continue to label the protestors as the PROBLEM while making everyone else a VICTIM of the OWS protests, you are not a supporter. You worship the Market Economy Gods out of fear because you are afraid of change. You can be bribed. You accept the messages coming from big corporate bosses, corporate media reporters, corporate-backed think tanks and our political officials without genuine questioning. The world today is the END OF HISTORY according to your philosophy. You sleep better at night knowing this.
You must open your mind to new ideas, Bluefly. History is still evolving and it's not too late to be on right side of history.
Interesting novel, but nowhere did I say I disagree with the basic motivations of the Occupiers. I'm well aware of their general objectives and fully support shining a light on excessive greed of Wall Street and fiscal policies that undermine the middle class. The Tea Party and Occupiers are two sides of the same coin and both have valid and invalid points. The political extremes always do, but their solutions are never practical in reality.
If you actually read my posts, you would understand that my issue lies with their tactics, not their goals. Their initial plan to swarm the subway system was, in fact, elitist and misguided. Another poster's suggestion that commuters should shill out $10 or more to take a cab instead was, in fact, a solution based on a very elitist worldview. Fortunately, the Occupiers realized the err of their ways, agreeing with me, and backed off that plan for Friday.
To your other point: I understand why you perceive it that way from your limited partisan view but, frankly, you're the one scared of people's choices and, out of fear, want government to take over their choices so they won't change anything without your approval. You say you don't want handouts, but then get angry at the notion of working for whatever quality of life you desire, be it very basic or very lavish. Your decisions are just as market-based as the bankers on Wall Street.
Last edited by Bluefly; 11-20-2011 at 04:50 PM..
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It is a leaderless movement.