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I'm not sure why you're so passionate in your belief that DC's suburbs are unique, but besides volume there's little unique about Tysons' malls. Just a quick search of "upscale mall" and [random / depressed city name] turns back easy results that show the high end stores are in every major market and, generally speaking, whatever's not at those particular malls is at more mid-range malls in each area (they just might not be all in the same location):
For someone who claims frequently to be mischaracterized or misunderstood, that response is pretty weak. I've never said DC's suburbs were "unique," much less suggested that suburban malls make them so. I have taken issue with your suggestion that DC is unique, while its suburbs are more or less generic, because there are wide differences among suburbs, just as there are among cities. I won't do a mall-vs.-mall comparison, but the breadth of shopping and dining that you can find in the DC suburbs is considerably greater than what you'd find in many other regions. Providing a list of malls in different cities hardly proves otherwise.
The relevance to this to the OP, of course, goes back to the fact that DC's significance to the overall metropolitan area in which it sits has been substantially less in recent decades than NYC's significance to the NY region or Chicago's significance to Chicagoland. The fact that a poster might ask whether "DC is becoming the next NYC" doesn't mean much more than that lots of people like to think that their city is important and improving. DC was already important, and will remain so, but comparing it to NYC is leading with one's chin stuck far, far out.
For someone who claims frequently to be mischaracterized or misunderstood, that response is pretty weak. I've never said DC's suburbs were "unique," much less suggested that suburban malls make them so. I have taken issue with your suggestion that DC is unique, while its suburbs are generic, because there are wide differences among suburbs, just as there are among cities. I won't do a mall-by-mall comparison, but the breadth of shopping and dining that you can find in the DC suburbs is considerably greater than what you'd find in many other regions. Providing a list of malls in different cities hardly proves otherwise.
The relevance to this to the OP, of course, goes back to the fact that DC's significance to the overall metropolitan area in which it sits has been substantially less in recent decades than NYC's significance to the NY region or Chicago's significance to Chicagoland. The fact that a poster might ask whether "DC is becoming the next NYC" doesn't mean much more than that lots of people like to think that their city is important and improving. DC was already important, and will remain so, but comparing it to NYC is leading with one's chin stuck far, far out.
As someone who spends a good amount of time in malls in the DC suburbs. I'd say that the shopping in the DC area is a little sub-par for the 8th largest metro area in the US. The District is the worst with being so up in arms about a Wal-mart when the places where Wal-marts are being proposed are retail deserts. Although I will say that Friendship Heights is nice. Georgetown is nice but has such a crowded feel because of the tiny sidewalks. Friendship Heights on the other hand has elbow room but lacks Georgetown aesthetics.
Suburbs in general aren't the most unique. However I will admit that it is annoying when the implication is made that one would be a fool to move to the DC suburbs. Why pay so much money to live in a generic suburb that can be found in Anytown USA? Well that's a paraphrasing of aforementioned implication. People forget that city living isn't for everyone. Most people want the city for its work, culture, and nightlife while living in the suburbs. Of course that's changing. I like to think of myself as a prime example of the paradigm shift. I both work and live in the suburbs. I wouldn't How many people in Virginia know nothing of DC except what they read in the Post? So unfortunately I agree that DC's signifigance for the region is becoming less and less as more companies set up shop in the suburbs.
However, while I have resigned myself to suburbia I meet more and more reverse commuters by the day. I know someone who has offices in both Tysons and Dulles that just moved from north Arlington to Mt. Plesant. He was just gushing about it. I've been encouraged to join the ranks. I know someone who gladly gave up the big house in Alexandria for a small apartment in Adams Morgan while still working in Falls Church or Fairfax (I forget which).
I'll even go as far as to say that the silver line will serve more reverse commuters to Tysons than suburban commuters to the District.
So yes DC's signifigance in the region is growing less and less. At the same time even as more jobs move to the suburbs I still predict more and more people will move to the city. The idea of the city being for pleasant living and not just for work is a new concept but one that doesn't seem to going to the wayside anytime soon. However, I hope the smugness that some city folk have for suburbanites does suffer a quick death.
As someone who spends a good amount of time in malls in the DC suburbs. I'd say that the shopping in the DC area is a little sub-par for the 8th largest metro area in the US. The District is the worst with being so up in arms about a Wal-mart when the places where Wal-marts are being proposed are retail deserts. Although I will say that Friendship Heights is nice. Georgetown is nice but has such a crowded feel because of the tiny sidewalks. Friendship Heights on the other hand has elbow room but lacks Georgetown aesthetics.
Suburbs in general aren't the most unique. However I will admit that it is annoying when the implication is made that one would be a fool to move to the DC suburbs. Why pay so much money to live in a generic suburb that can be found in Anytown USA? Well that's a paraphrasing of aforementioned implication. People forget that city living isn't for everyone. Most people want the city for its work, culture, and nightlife while living in the suburbs. Of course that's changing. I like to think of myself as a prime example of the paradigm shift. I both work and live in the suburbs. I wouldn't How many people in Virginia know nothing of DC except what they read in the Post? So unfortunately I agree that DC's signifigance for the region is becoming less and less as more companies set up shop in the suburbs.
However, while I have resigned myself to suburbia I meet more and more reverse commuters by the day. I know someone who has offices in both Tysons and Dulles that just moved from north Arlington to Mt. Plesant. He was just gushing about it. I've been encouraged to join the ranks. I know someone who gladly gave up the big house in Alexandria for a small apartment in Adams Morgan while still working in Falls Church or Fairfax (I forget which).
I'll even go as far as to say that the silver line will serve more reverse commuters to Tysons than suburban commuters to the District.
So yes DC's signifigance in the region is growing less and less. At the same time even as more jobs move to the suburbs I still predict more and more people will move to the city. The idea of the city being for pleasant living and not just for work is a new concept but one that doesn't seem to going to the wayside anytime soon. However, I hope the smugness that some city folk have for suburbanites does suffer a quick death.
Georgetown isn't really a great shopping location any more. Wisconsin Avenue is full of bland restaurants and places where you can buy cheap suits, cheap shoes, and cheap jewelry. Georgetown Mall is DC's equivalent of Landmark; it's not totally vacant, but there are so many vacancies that it's off-putting.
Mount Pleasant is the perfect example of a DC neighborhood that suffers by comparison to a neighborhood in a city like NYC (say, Astoria in Queens) or Chicago (say, Wrigleyville) where there's more density and foot traffic. It's a very nice residential area with good architecture, but Mt. Pleasant Street, the main commercial street, has had underwhelming, limited retail options for decades. It might get better if some of the run down apartment buildings were replaced with larger, nicer buildings.
Georgetown isn't really a great shopping location any more. Wisconsin Avenue is full of bland restaurants and places where you can buy cheap suits, cheap shoes, and cheap jewelry. Georgetown Mall is DC's equivalent of Landmark; it's not totally vacant, but there are so many vacancies that it's off-putting.
Mount Pleasant is the perfect example of a DC neighborhood that suffers by comparison to a neighborhood in a city like NYC (say, Astoria in Queens) or Chicago (say, Wrigleyville) where there's more density and foot traffic. It's a very nice residential area with good architecture, but Mt. Pleasant Street, the main commercial street, has had underwhelming, limited retail options for decades. It might get better if some of the run down apartment buildings were replaced with larger, nicer buildings.
I disagree about the shopping options in Georgetwon but I haven't spent a lot of time shopping in Georgetown. In fact I haven't actually been shopping in Georgetown since a visit from my mother in April. Never been to Georgetown Mall. Heard they were closing the Barnes and Noble and putting in a Nike store.
Mt. Plesant is okay. Its a good starter neighborhood for a young professional. They keep their name out of the papers in Mt. Pleasant. The commercial district is not a reason to move to the neighborhood. I'd move there because its not far from Adams Morgan and Dupont without being too far away.
However, that's not on my very short list of DC neighborhoods I'd move to if the stars were aligned. I like Capitol Hill and U street. However, if I'm still single if and when I move to the District, I'll probably stay east of Rock Creek park. For some reason there are hardly any gay men in places like Tenleytown and Woodley Park. I've talked to more white guys that lived in Anacostia and PG county than say Cleveland Park. Darnedest thing.
As far as Mt. Pleasant is concerned yes its commerical strip is a little rough around the edges. To me you get a little city grit in that area without getting carried away like some parts of the city.
Georgetown isn't really a great shopping location any more. Wisconsin Avenue is full of bland restaurants and places where you can buy cheap suits, cheap shoes, and cheap jewelry. Georgetown Mall is DC's equivalent of Landmark; it's not totally vacant, but there are so many vacancies that it's off-putting.
Mount Pleasant is the perfect example of a DC neighborhood that suffers by comparison to a neighborhood in a city like NYC (say, Astoria in Queens) or Chicago (say, Wrigleyville) where there's more density and foot traffic. It's a very nice residential area with good architecture, but Mt. Pleasant Street, the main commercial street, has had underwhelming, limited retail options for decades. It might get better if some of the run down apartment buildings were replaced with larger, nicer buildings.
I needed a nice hat for an orthodox wedding - didnt want something that LOOKED orthodox, but a nice fedora. I looked for a good hat store in the suburbs, (using the internet mostly) and didnt find one - and the dept stores I visited didnt have what I needed. I found this great place just off Wisconisin. I was a happy camper.
Georgetown today, afaict, esp on M street has a bunch of chains similar to the malls, maybe a handful of funkier stores. Where its really blossomed has been in design/home furnishings etc the stuff between m and the canal, just east of the key bridge. Not SoHo exactly, but we have fun going there (not that we've bought anything there)
Mt Pleasant - I remember when dos gringos was the only non-hispanic focused business there.
Georgetown Park seriously needs reinvention.
I had a nice veggie wrap in a place on wisconsin - Im not sure what you mean by bland in that instance - it met me needs - I dont always need super authentic asian.
Maybe by bland the definition leans toward chains and places marketed towards tourists. One of the worst restaurants I've ever eaten at in DC was in Georgetown right on M street. My mother didn't want me spending too much money on her during her visit. I so could've done a told you so/you get what you pay for on her but I'm a good son haha. Had the calamari and it was just awful. Lesson: with the exception of a few places leave the calamari to the Italians.
I needed a nice hat for an orthodox wedding - didnt want something that LOOKED orthodox, but a nice fedora. I looked for a good hat store in the suburbs, (using the internet mostly) and didnt find one - and the dept stores I visited didnt have what I needed. I found this great place just off Wisconisin. I was a happy camper.
Georgetown today, afaict, esp on M street has a bunch of chains similar to the malls, maybe a handful of funkier stores. Where its really blossomed has been in design/home furnishings etc the stuff between m and the canal, just east of the key bridge. Not SoHo exactly, but we have fun going there (not that we've bought anything there)
Mt Pleasant - I remember when dos gringos was the only non-hispanic focused business there.
Georgetown Park seriously needs reinvention.
I had a nice veggie wrap in a place on wisconsin - Im not sure what you mean by bland in that instance - it met me needs - I dont always need super authentic asian.
That's nice. I had a good crepe on M Street a few weeks ago, too.
I guess what I meant is that a lot of the fare on Wisconsin is boring stuff like you'd find on Second or Third Avenue in NYC. Nothing wrong with it per se, just that Georgetown is supposed to be one of DC's signature neighborhoods. You don't really need me to compare what you might find in a NYC neighborhood of similar repute.
I always enjoy your anecdotes and am glad you found a nice hat (and had a good veggie wrap for that matter). It doesn't change the point that I'd made previously, which is that in some instances high-end retailers that do not have locations in other suburban malls or in DC itself open up stores in places like the Tysons Galleria. In other areas like NYC and SF, they are more likely open up their stores downtown.
Not exactly a big deal, and personally I don't spend much on shopping items if I can avoid it, but one more reason why some of the comparisons of DC to other cities fizzle out.
For someone who claims frequently to be mischaracterized or misunderstood, that response is pretty weak. I've never said DC's suburbs were "unique," much less suggested that suburban malls make them so. I have taken issue with your suggestion that DC is unique, while its suburbs are more or less generic, because there are wide differences among suburbs, just as there are among cities. I won't do a mall-vs.-mall comparison, but the breadth of shopping and dining that you can find in the DC suburbs is considerably greater than what you'd find in many other regions. Providing a list of malls in different cities hardly proves otherwise.
The relevance to this to the OP, of course, goes back to the fact that DC's significance to the overall metropolitan area in which it sits has been substantially less in recent decades than NYC's significance to the NY region or Chicago's significance to Chicagoland. The fact that a poster might ask whether "DC is becoming the next NYC" doesn't mean much more than that lots of people like to think that their city is important and improving. DC was already important, and will remain so, but comparing it to NYC is leading with one's chin stuck far, far out.
Your east coast perspective really clouds your clarity on this issue, which is perhaps why you don't see that I am correct.
You claimed that the Tysons area offers more variety of shopping than you could ever find in a region like Indianapolis'. By illustrating that the Indianapolis area and others have the highest end of the retail market covered, I effectively proved that all other levels of the market are fulfilled as well, thus negating any supreme advantage to the DC area suburbs in terms of retail offerings.
Anyway, I've never discouraged people from moving to this area's suburbs (how could everybody fit in a tiny central city like DC?). I also never claimed DC is becoming "the next NYC", whatever that means. Anybody who's ever lived in or even spent time in NYC knows how vastly different the two cities are - and that's not necessarily a bad thing at all.
That's nice. I had a good crepe on M Street a few weeks ago, too.
I guess what I meant is that a lot of the fare on Wisconsin is boring stuff like you'd find on Second or Third Avenue in NYC. Nothing wrong with it per se, just that Georgetown is supposed to be one of DC's signature neighborhoods. You don't really need me to compare what you might find in a NYC neighborhood of similar repute.
I love second and third avenues. Wonderful walking, wonderful people watching.
My parents, may the rest in peace, knew a coffee shop on Lex near MOMA they would stop at when they went to the museum. When DW and I are in town, we often go to places like that, or to little ethnic places on 9th, or whatever. Not the signature restaurants. But we've taken our DD to MOMA, to TBM, to the Guggenheim - as we have to the Phillips, the Corcoran, the Hirschorn, the both wings of the National Gallery, etc, etc.
What makes NYC world class for me may not be what Forbes mag considers to make it world class. That probably colors my view of DC.
Wasn't Woody Allen who said in Hannah and her Sisters "you're in New York, you're safe" or something like that? I dont think he was referring (in that context anyway) to the baubles for the international 1%. I remember when NYC still had the faint overtones of LaGuardia, Dubinski, and a general disdain for the 1%. From my last HS reunion, I think thats still there. Yet that older NYC WAS world class, in its literary output, its art and museums, its bookstores, etc, etc.
I would rather see this nerdy capital city aspire to that (and yeah we have weak spots) than to "flash".
BTW, I am sure I could easily have found a nice hat in NYC. But here in metro DC, its sometimes easier to find things in Georgetown than in fairfax (and not ONLY cupcakes ) . I was in that responding to your statements about Tysons, not claiming M Street was Madison avenue.
I always enjoy your anecdotes and am glad you found a nice hat (and had a good veggie wrap for that matter). It doesn't change the point that I'd made previously, which is that in some instances high-end retailers that do not have locations in other suburban malls or in DC itself open up stores in places like the Tysons Galleria. In other areas like NYC and SF, they are more likely open up their stores downtown.
and when a NYC outlet opens up in DC, like Eataly or balduccis, everyone is like "DC should STOP trying to be NYC"
When the place you mentioned, or even American Girl, opens in Tysons, NO ONE says Fairfax should stop trying to be like NYC.
Think about it.
I would also suggest that it MAY be true, as some folk at GGW suggest, that DC is lagging in providing high end retail locations, and that further multi use development could well compete well with the suburbs. Georgetown also would do well to get metro access, which is still years away.
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) . I was in that responding to your statements about Tysons, not claiming M Street was Madison avenue.
