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The real conspirators are the NIMBYs who, in the name of "property values" and "character" and "traffic," are artificially limiting the market response to high values (i.e., increasing supply through new construction).
Interesting. On my listserv, there seem to be a lot of younger people who could not afford to live in their neighborhood of preference (Adams-Morgan, Dupont, U Street) and now seek to convert the current neighborhood into that type of neighborhood. It used to be that people moved to a neighborhood because they liked it the way it was. They didn't move there anticipating (and praying) that the neighborhood would eventually become something else.
Neighborhoods are no longer places where people go to be part of a community. They are commodities whose worth is determined by the number of coffeeshops, sandwich shops, bikeshares and cupcake boutiques within walking distance. When the value of the commodity rises, they can cash out and move on. That's what it's all about nowadays.
That actually suits me just fine. The more condos get built in my neighborhood, the more yuppie white people that move in, and then my property value goes up, up and away! But that's not really my concern. I just think people often have a very linear, one-dimensional view of things.
there ARE high capacity articulcated conventional buses, and they have been suggested as an alternative to street cars. AFAIK there are no articulated high capacity Trolley buses anywhere.
The articulated buses have the advantage of lower capital cost, since they involve no fixed route infrastructure. They are costlier than street cars (and then conventionally sized buses) to maintain, and like all buses, require replacement more frequently than street cars. I have not ridden either articulated buses or street cars lately, but my understanding is that street cars do somewhat better in ride quality and noise - which means more riders, which in turn makes greater frequency more feasible. They can also more easily run underground, which matters in some lines, though I think no proposed ones in DC.
Also, the assertion that street cars will tend to lead to more development hardly implies that every place with street cars will develop, or that no place without them will. Its "all other things being equal".
I would note that at least a one unsubsidized developer is waiting for the street car to open before building on H Street. Developers on Columbia Pike in Arlington already tout the very uncertain Columbia Pike light rail in their ads, IIUC.
Really? Then why haven't property values exploded in North and Southwest Philly relative to neighborhoods like Chestnut Hill and Andorra that don't have streetcar lines? Why aren't yuppies rushing to move into Haddington since streetcars spur so much development?
Again, why isn't gentrification booming in the hard core North Philly and Southwest Philly ghettos that have extensive streetcar lines?
You're right. That's why the city should build on Meridian Hill and Rock Creek Park, too.
Because Philadelphia doesn't have the appeal of Washington DC. Philadelphia is still dying outside center city. Businesses are still leaving for the suburbs in Philly. They have lost jobs in Center City to the suburbs. Also, Philly's transit system is old and primitive. That's not going to spur new development. Our streetcars will be new and modern. Our subway system is modern. Philly still uses tokens for example. Businesses aren't lining up to move to Philadelphia. There really is no comparison. Buses honestly need to get replaced by rail or BRT in high density corridor. To get choice riders on buses which is the only way to affect traffic, things need to be clean, sleek, and efficient. Philly's trolleys are absolute scars and should be replaced. Really, streets should get a dedicated lane by removing a lane from cars but then citizens like yourself would be furious.
That actually suits me just fine. The more condos get built in my neighborhood, the more yuppie white people that move in, and then my property value goes up, up and away!
alternatively if no condos are built, housing remains scarce, and yuppies (the townhouse and quiet craving kind) transform the neighborhood anyway. You might well expect to make MORE money that. So I don't think any of us can really know your motivation from your RE situation.
Interesting. On my listserv, there seem to be a lot of younger people who could not afford to live in their neighborhood of preference (Adams-Morgan, Dupont, U Street) and now seek to convert the current neighborhood into that type of neighborhood. It used to be that people moved to a neighborhood because they liked it the way it was. They didn't move there anticipating (and praying) that the neighborhood would eventually become something else.
people were doing that in Canton in Baltimore when I lived there in 1990. The successful transformation of urban neighborhoods has a history going back to Georgetown and Brooklyn Heights in the 1940s and 1950s, its not really anything that new. Heck, the behavior you are describing - transform and move on - is what literal pioneers did on the American frontier in the 18th and 19th centuries.
Usually people move cause there is SOMETHING they like about the area - the architecture, the location, whatever - and there are other things they dont like so much, and want to change. Or, in many cases, that they end up changing whether they try or not.
and quite often they do become part of the community. Folks who pioneered Georgetown stayed for a long time, as have people in Bolton Hill in Baltimore, and elsewhere. Some I suppose cash out and move on.
Interesting. On my listserv, there seem to be a lot of younger people who could not afford to live in their neighborhood of preference (Adams-Morgan, Dupont, U Street) and now seek to convert the current neighborhood into that type of neighborhood. It used to be that people moved to a neighborhood because they liked it the way it was. They didn't move there anticipating (and praying) that the neighborhood would eventually become something else.
Neighborhoods are no longer places where people go to be part of a community. They are commodities whose worth is determined by the number of coffeeshops, sandwich shops, bikeshares and cupcake boutiques within walking distance. When the value of the commodity rises, they can cash out and move on. That's what it's all about nowadays.
That actually suits me just fine. The more condos get built in my neighborhood, the more yuppie white people that move in, and then my property value goes up, up and away! But that's not really my concern. I just think people often have a very linear, one-dimensional view of things.
I thought you moved to NYC. Did you move back? I figured since you talked so negatively about DC so much, you wouldn't set foot in it again. Have you ever contemplated moving back home to Philly? If you just own property here, why do you care about gentrification and it's effect on raising your property values? You don't live here so how does it effect you?
Neighborhoods are no longer places where people go to be part of a community. They are commodities whose worth is determined by the number of coffeeshops, sandwich shops, bikeshares and cupcake boutiques within walking distance.
There are bikeshares all around DC including some "undesirable" areas.
I enjoy coffee shops, and have gotten back into biking and am looking to try out CaBi. That hardly contradicts getting to know your neighbors -(indeed thats what I would hope would happen at a community coffee shop)
There are people looking to make money - from folks looking to flip an city townhouse or a suburban SFH, to corrupt DC pols. Thats human nature IM afraid. In my experience, you can't sort people into mercenary vs non mercenary based on their age, race, or preference for hot beverages and retail.
Because Philadelphia doesn't have the appeal of Washington DC.
Technically yes. Philadelphia does not have DC's robust job market. If you shifted DC's entire economy two hours up I-95, then yes, you would see neighborhoods like Strawberry Mansion rapidly gentrify. But that would have nothing to do with streetcars and everything to do with more a more affluent population buying the houses. Streetcars don't spur development. People in search of cheap properties (because they were priced out of the neighborhoods they really wanted to live in) spur development.
In other words, I seriously doubt that H Street would have remained a decrepit ghetto for another decade but for the streetcar, especially considering its proximity to Capitol Hill and Downtown. It was going to gentrify one way or another.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MDAllstar
Philadelphia is still dying outside center city. Businesses are still leaving for the suburbs in Philly. They have lost jobs in Center City to the suburbs. Also, Philly's transit system is old and primitive. That's not going to spur new development. Our streetcars will be new and modern. Our subway system is modern. Philly still uses tokens for example. Businesses aren't lining up to move to Philadelphia. There really is no comparison. Buses honestly need to get replaced by rail or BRT in high density corridor. To get choice riders on buses which is the only way to affect traffic, things need to be clean, sleek, and efficient. Philly's trolleys are absolute scars and should be replaced. Really, streets should get a dedicated lane by removing a lane from cars but then citizens like yourself would be furious.
How does this respond to my earlier statement? You see development going on all over Philadelphia. However, you don't see it near off of many streetcar routes. If streetcars were such a boon to development, as you say they are, then why hasn't Girard Avenue hit warp speed gentrification yet?
alternatively if no condos are built, housing remains scarce, and yuppies (the townhouse and quiet craving kind) transform the neighborhood anyway. You might well expect to make MORE money that. So I don't think any of us can really know your motivation from your RE situation.
No. Massive condo projects bring retail, and most importantly, a lot of white people. Only so many houses in the neighborhood (the majority of which are owned by blacks) will eventually end up in the hands of yuppies. So if I were strictly concerned about my property values (as so many of my neighbors are), then I would have been on the "Build, Baby, Build!" bandwagon a long time ago.
There are bikeshares all around DC including some "undesirable" areas.
And what does that have to do with people basing the worth of a neighborhood on the number of "amenities" in a neighborhood? My point wasn't that bikeshares don't end up in "undesirable" areas. When they do end up in those areas, I'm sure that becomes one more "amenity" for new residents to brag about.
Quote:
Originally Posted by brooklynborndad
I enjoy coffee shops, and have gotten back into biking and am looking to try out CaBi. That hardly contradicts getting to know your neighbors -(indeed thats what I would hope would happen at a community coffee shop)
That's not what I said either. I said that it's an interesting phenonemon that people move to neighborhoods and obsess over the absence or presence of "amenities."
Quote:
Originally Posted by brooklynborndad
There are people looking to make money - from folks looking to flip an city townhouse or a suburban SFH, to corrupt DC pols. Thats human nature IM afraid. In my experience, you can't sort people into mercenary vs non mercenary based on their age, race, or preference for hot beverages and retail.
Why do you think I was? Did I say, "Young white people who drink chai latte move to the neighborhood to exploit it much like the Boers exploited South Africa?" I said that people move to the neighborhood anticipating changes. Those people are most often young and white, but are not always young and white.
Quote:
Originally Posted by brooklynborndad
Folks who pioneered Georgetown stayed for a long time, as have people in Bolton Hill in Baltimore, and elsewhere.
Moving into a minority/poor neighborhood does not make you Christopher Columbus or Lewis & Clark.
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