Washington, D.C.'s CSA population numbers compared to other U.S. cities (house, tech jobs)
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Uh...DC and Baltimore share a major airport. Not only that, but residents of both cities commute between the two. Plus, they are only 35 miles away from each other. When traveling between the two by highway, there is no pause is urbanity. You leave the Capital Beltway, drive for a bit, and you're inside the Baltimore Beltway.
Baltimore and Washington are practically twin cities. End of story.
Uh...DC and Baltimore share a major airport. Not only that, but residents of both cities commute between the two. Plus, they are only 35 miles away from each other. When traveling between the two by highway, there is no pause is urbanity. You leave the Capital Beltway, drive for a bit, and you're inside the Baltimore Beltway.
Baltimore and Washington are practically twin cities. End of story.
Twin cities are not 35 miles apart. Minneapolis and St Paul, Raleigh and Durham, and even San Francisco and Oakland to some extent actually border or are within a couple of miles of each other.
Two cities with some grey space that is kind of both and more two distinct places with many commuters that flow between them.
DC and Baltimore by no means feel like the same place to me; less so than do SJ and SF in reality to me personally.
This is where CSA to me becomes less cohesive.
Think about it this way; Philly and NYC are only 46 miles at their closest city borders and there are probably at least as many (maybe more) people that cross the MSA borders to commute to work yet the percentage is smaller because of the denominators. No one would consider those two connected as one place (grey space yes but seperate)
Also a place like Harve De Grace feels nothing like DC or NOVA to me perosnally.
CSA inflates the truse size of DC or Baltimore in this case. The DC MSA number makes more sense on how large the area feels IMHO
Case in point this map where there is almost areas in mushroom country of Chester County PA continuing to be added to DC. CSA is what it is but IMHO way overstates the size of DC which feels closer to a Boston or Philly (MSA wise to me)
Two cities with some grey space that is kind of both and more two distinct places with many commuters that flow between them.
DC and Baltimore by no means feel like the same place to me; less so than do SJ and SF in reality to me personally.
This is where CSA to me becomes less cohesive.
Think about it this way; Philly and NYC are only 46 miles at their closest city borders and there are probably at least as many (maybe more) people that cross the MSA borders to commute to work yet the percentage is smaller because of the denominators. No one would consider those two connected as one place (grey space yes but seperate)
Also a place like Harve De Grace feels nothing like DC or NOVA to me perosnally.
CSA inflates the truse size of DC or Baltimore in this case. The DC MSA number makes more sense on how large the area feels IMHO
the closest city borders of Philly and NYC are the far part of north east philly to the Tottenville part of Staten Island. Compare that to 40 miles from the Inner Harbor to the White House.
And I doubt there is any county in Metro Philly which feels as NYC focused as Howard County Md feels DC oriented.
I lived in baltimore for 6 years, and (greater) DC for almost 20 years, and I find them very linked, in ways that NYC and Philly are not.
Umm... I never said that, son. You perpetuate these debates by throwing childish lines like "reduced to basking in the reflected glory of DC", forcing me to explain that I never said that and keeping with your theme of trolling this forum looking for anyone who might find DC to be a nice place to live and - gasp - maybe even nicer than another place. ELITIST! You scream. .
A lot of people in DC make their livings (and very good ones at that) calling other people in DC (often people considerably less aflluent thant themselves) "elitists". Its something that in my opinion, has distorted the politics of our country for over 30 years. Its one of the things I do not like about DC, I am afraid.
the closest city borders of Philly and NYC are the far part of north east philly to the Tottenville part of Staten Island. Compare that to 40 miles from the Inner Harbor to the White House.
And I doubt there is any county in Metro Philly which feels as NYC focused as Howard County Md feels DC oriented.
I lived in baltimore for 6 years, and (greater) DC for almost 20 years, and I find them very linked, in ways that NYC and Philly are not.
I have lived in DC, NYC, and Philly Agree on the distances but more my point is that they have commuter interplay (absolutely) and Howard and Annarundel (sp?) are probably the most but the two areas in aggregate do not truly function like one place. My point on the NYC and Philly MSAs (not cities though the mileage may have just confused the point) is in absolutes commuters (meaning total people that cross the MSA boundaries (look at counties like Buck, Mercer, Hunterdon, Burlington, Somerset etc. and also remember that 6.5 million people live in the space that connects NYC and Philly cities not included or counties not directly in the line and the interplay is all directions here, especially the very large job centers in Central NJ) for work each day are likely about the same in numbers (maybe even more in absolutes actually). Meaning as many people traverse the line for work but this alone does not make two places the same. The closer to DC the more influence and the further the less. Which to me is why adding all the Baltimore MSA population really over inflates the size of the place in funtional form just in aggregates.
Also there is an additional component in the census CSA designation called core county, without this NYC and Philly already have county connections to meet the 15% commuter thresh hold of CSA. Which to me certain hold some similarities where the area is sort of both influenced (not the proximity of DC) that said DC is not to me a city of 8+ million people. Loosely with that to me you could nearly claim Philly with a connection to NYC as the space in the middle is grey (though because the scale is much smaller both in absolute population and general distance to the cores less so than DC by a bit)
I have lived in DC, NYC, and Philly Agree on the distances but more my point is that they have commuter interplay (absolutely) and Howard and Annarundel (sp?) are probably the most but the two areas in aggregate do not truly function like one place. My point on the NYC and Philly MSAs (not cities though the mileage may have just confused the point) is in absolutes commuters (meaning total peopl that cross the MSA boundaries for work each day are likely about the same in numbers. Menaing as many people traverse the line for work but this alone does not make two places the same. The closer to DC the more influence and the further the less. Which to me is why adding all the Baltimore MSA population really over inflates the size of the place in funtional form.
Also there is an additional component in the census CSA designation called core county, without this NYC and Philly already have county connections to meet the 15% commuter thresh hold of CSA. Which to me certain hold some similarities where the area is sort of both influenced (not the proximity of DC) that said DC is not to me a city of 8 million people. Loosely with that to me you could nearly claim Philly with a connection to NYC as the space in the middle is grey (though because the scale is much smaller both in absolute population and general distance to the cores lesso than DC by a little)
Ive commuted from Baltimore City to Alexandria. My wife, before I met her, commuted from Baltimore City to Greenbelt Md. My strong sense is that commuting across the line, and even from center city to center city and BEYOND, is common enough to be unsurprising. Baltimore City has run ads for living in Baltimore in the DC metro - I've never seen anything like that in NYC wrt Philly. Yes, Baltimore is a proud metro area - its not DC's Oakland. But it is tightly linked to DC, in a way Philly is not to NYC. Commuting, but also day trips, cultural events, radio stations and newspapers, etc. I think DCs metro area population excluding metro Baltimore does somewhat understate greater Washingtons size, but yeah, treating all of Metro Baltimore as part of metro DC would overstate it.
Ive commuted from Baltimore City to Alexandria. My wife, before I met her, commuted from Baltimore City to Greenbelt Md. My strong sense is that commuting across the line, and even from center city to center city and BEYOND, is common enough to be unsurprising. Baltimore City has run ads for living in Baltimore in the DC metro - I've never seen anything like that in NYC wrt Philly. Yes, Baltimore is a proud metro area - its not DC's Oakland. But it is tightly linked to DC, in a way Philly is not to NYC. Commuting, but also day trips, cultural events, radio stations and newspapers, etc. I think DCs metro area population excluding metro Baltimore does somewhat understate greater Washingtons size, but yeah, treating all of Metro Baltimore as part of metro DC would overstate it.
I think we mostly agree. I also spent half my youth in Bucks County PA (a commuter area for both NYC trains from Trenton and Philly, there is a lot of influence from both though Bucks is pretty much Philly sports fans. On my street it was very common to have one pareent working in Philly or KOP and another working in Plainsboro or Manhattan (just seemed normal). That would not be the case in Chester County PA though. On Greenbelt or even DC itself it makes sense and is commutable (Greenbelt from the inner Harbor is what like 25 miles. That is like commuting from Cherry Hill to KOP or even further than commuting from Yardley PA to Plainsboro NJ (Philly MSA to NYC MSA) as an example
There are some people that do commute from Philly to Manhattan (to me crazy)
On the day trips, it happens actually pretty frequently.
Though I agree less connection that DC and Baltimore on the whole and esp as a percentage of the relative populations.
Your last sentence though to me sums up my point though an on the whole I think we mostly agree. On a comparison to the Bay to me Baltimore has too much identity to funtion the same way as SJ and SF where SF is more the iconic city if that makes in the relationship (Baltimore still retains a much stronger sense of place seperate from the whol of DC/Balt)
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