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Location: YOU are NOT a Washingtonian. YOU are a GENTRIFIER from the CVS, Whole Foods, Starbucks & Condos era.
367 posts, read 642,357 times
Reputation: 148
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluefly
But downtown DC isn't really the center of our lives here, so I wouldn't let that influence you. Downtown's come a long way in terms of attracting destination retailers but it's far from the most interesting / vibrant part of the city.
I'd say residents of DC spend much more time in the neighborhoods dining out, wandering markets, buying interior design products or clothes, wandering bookstores, drinking, etc. On weekends and evenings you'll find neighborhoods teeming with activity and downtown still pretty quiet. Chinatown and Penn Quarter have grown a lot but most of downtown is still mostly where people from the suburbs come in for work and then leave.
This is what I do not understand about some of your comments...
You say downtown has come along way in terms of attracting destination retailers but to many Native Washingtonians, downtown has gone downhill and in the opposite direction.
For decades, people in DC were always dining out, wandering markets, buying interior design products or clothes.
DC neighborhoods have always been teeming with activity.
This is nothing new.
For many native Washingtonians downtown DC was the "most interesting / vibrant part of the city"
My theory is that DC was simply undesirable for a good period of time so no retail was wanted, or needed. Then when it exploded, the high price of commercial real estate made it an expensive investment.
Actually the opposite of your statement is what really happened.
DC used to have a thriving middle class in the city and held top nightclubs in the entire nation.
I remember when promoters would throw large parties at the DC Armory or RFK Stadium.
There used to be clubs & bars on every block near Chinatown.
17th street neighborhood even had their own culture with clothing stores & carribean markets up & down the block.
[quote=WASHINGTON BULLETS;33150876]How long have you lived in DC?
10-15 years?
I need to know this so I can pinpoint the exact time period you experienced when you first arrived here. Do you remember Britches, Raleighs & Garfinckels?[/quote]
Didn't there used to be a Hecht's in DC back then as well? I remember going to the Hecht's that used to be at Landover Mall when I was little and used to play around the furniture section LOL.
This is what I do not understand about some of your comments...
You say downtown has come along way in terms of attracting destination retailers but to many Native Washingtonians, downtown has gone downhill and in the opposite direction.
For decades, people in DC were always dining out, wandering markets, buying interior design products or clothes.
DC neighborhoods have always been teeming with activity.
This is nothing new.
For many native Washingtonians downtown DC was the "most interesting / vibrant part of the city"
I never said people didn't do all that stuff before. You're older than me but downtown was pretty desolate for a long time. Now a lot of independent businesses are opening. Of course there were things going on but there was a lot of vacancy.
What you call suburban was urban before you were born. The main real estate economy just left for a while. People claim NYC was much better in the 70s and 80s when it was at it's roughest. It was certainly more interesting, but a lot of societal problems come with interesting, so it's subjective. I know a lot of women who feel far more comfortable walking around than they ever did before. Hopefully DC will strike a better balance.
How long have you lived in DC?
10-15 years?
I need to know this so I can pinpoint the exact time period you experienced when you first arrived here.
Do you remember Britches, Raleighs & Garfinckels?
How about Bonds, Hahn Shoes, Lerners, Dash's, Safeway International, Regal Shoes, Up Against The Wall.
That is absurd.
There may be more retail in DC compared to when you first arrived in DC 10-15 years ago but to say there is "more retail in DC now than there ever has been" is laughable.
You obviously never walked the same streets I used to walk in DC while growing up.
As a child I used to get dragged along with older relatives on day long shopping trips all over DC until I could not take it anymore.
There were so many non chain stores it was unbelievable.
I am here right now.
There are lots & lots & lots of bars, condos, CVS, Starbucks, Whole Foods stores.
You cannot deny that.
There were always hardware stores, clothing boutiques & breweries in DC way before the CVS, Starbucks & Whole Foods invasion.
What does my youth have to do with anything?
Why should I have to propose how my youth is structurally sustainable in the adult world when all I was doing was giving you examples of businesses in DC that were only a few blocks away from the white house but were about as far away from the federal government as you could possibly get.
But since you brought it up, I enjoyed the DC of my youth.
I think the DC of my youth was far more exciting than the DC of the present.
There are many people who agree with me too.
There are even gentrifiers who a trying bring that whole era back by opening up an arcade on H Street NE filled with vintage arcade games.
You know what they say, imitation is the greatest form of flattery.
Gentrifiers one step behind as usual.
Not everyone left. There were lots & lots of people who stayed.
You speak as if the entire city was like this.
I was here and trust me not everything was like that.
Not by a long shot.
Once again you speak as if the entire city was like this.
I used to walk on U Street & Columbia Heights all the time and nothing ever happened to me.
Your comment on the District being in such disarray by the late 90s is laughable.
Cities in such disarray do not open up brand new sporting arenas (1997) and hold the NBA draft (1999) inside/outside the arena along with player/fan related activities on the surrounding streets.
Once again. I WAS THERE.
Some of your comments are so far from the truth I often wonder how long you have lived in DC and where you are originally from.
I have asked you in the past but you just dodge the question or try to change the topic.
Are you posting on here about things/events you have only read about?
or
Are you posting on here about things/events you actually witnessed first hand through personal experience?
Yes, absurd stereotypes that are far from the truth.
I travel a lot. Sometimes I leave the area for months at a time.
But DC will always be my home.
I will always be here.
I am not going anywhere.
You're so defensive, man. Relax. I never said there weren't hardware stores and such before; you keep making that strawman. I pointed out that there are many local stores opening up or staying in business today because you keep falsely saying only national chains are opening. Some of the older stores just keep moving east for cheaper rent.
What you're missing is that the middle class retail you keep boasting about was on a long, slow decline throughout the 70s, 80s, and 90s. Your youth is relevant because you're remembering fondly good times from a snapshot in time but not seeing the larger trend that started off with a solid, stable, community back when my grandparents settled here and ended up with massive vacancies by the 90s.
You're trying to capture a moment that was more like a fading gasp of life without any long-term structure for viability. The city was racking up massive debt by the 80s and 90s; it needed extensive social programs but was losing a tax base to pay for it. That's not going to be obvious while you're skateboarding on the street as a teen; it takes a more adult perspective to see those looming structural problems.
Now, is an excessively expensive city the answer? I don't think so.
In the end, it's all so subjective, I don't get why you keep arguing about it. Was Chicago a better city before it developed a world-class restaurant scene? I also avoid Times Square in New York in favor of more authentic parts of that city. A lot of people genuinely miss the old Times Square filled with sex shops and drug dealers. Key West was arguably a lot more interesting before the cruise ships and big money arrived.
Logan Circle was once an epicenter of wealth back in the 1920s. Why is your Logan Circle the real one? Was 14th Street better before artists got incentives from the city to fill abandoned buildings with places like Source Theater and Studio Theater? It certainly was more interesting in a lot of ways, but a good night of theater has its value.
It's a trade-off. I don't think there's a right answer so I'm not going around this carousel with you anymore. It just was what it was and now it is what it is.
Why is DC so under-retailed? This is one of the most affluent cities in the country based on per capita income, yet all over the city, there seems to be empty retail spaces. I'm continually shocked at how many empty stores there are in downtown. Even the eagerly-awaited CityCenter is almost completely built, and to my knowledge, there have been no major retail announcements, leading me to believe that the developers have been unable to attract high-caliber retailers to the center. And it's not just downtown. Look at Navy Yard, which despite all the new construction and expensive housing still has empty retail spaces abound. I always hear the argument that the rent is too high, but cities like New York and San Francisco have thriving retail even in with high rents. Further, isn't rent driven by supply and demand? If there's a high number of vacant storefronts, then you'd expect that rents would fall, but that doesn't seem to have happened here. Another argument is that poor neighborhoods are not good marketplaces, but poor people shop too, and even in places like the Bronx, there is tons of retail everywhere. So why are we so under-retailed?
Downtown just isn't that dense in terms of residential population to support a large amount of retail. Add in that rents are very high and you have a limited number of high margin stores and restaurants that can actually run a successful business. NYC and San Francisco are both significantly more dense than DC so that by itself can support more retail. Though to be fair if you go to downtown NYC or San Francisco, those areas themselves don't have the greatest retail selection either.
The other major issue for downtown DC is the management of parking. In Georgetown, Clarendon, or Alexandria you can easily park for $5-10 for the evening, whereby parking in downtown/Chinatown is often upwards of $20 (unless you find a rare street spot) even though the area is less vibrant and has few unique offerings.
Downtown just isn't that dense in terms of residential population to support a large amount of retail. Add in that rents are very high and you have a limited number of high margin stores and restaurants that can actually run a successful business. NYC and San Francisco are both significantly more dense than DC so that by itself can support more retail. Though to be fair if you go to downtown NYC or San Francisco, those areas themselves don't have the greatest retail selection either.
The other major issue for downtown DC is the management of parking. In Georgetown, Clarendon, or Alexandria you can easily park for $5-10 for the evening, whereby parking in downtown/Chinatown is often upwards of $20 (unless you find a rare street spot) even though the area is less vibrant and has few unique offerings.
Pardon me but downtown San Francisco has excellent shopping. And please don't say Union Square, San Francisco Centre are not dt because they are. Also I believe parking is more expensive and harder to come by in both the New York and San Francisco downtowns than DTDC though DC's is expensive too.
Location: YOU are NOT a Washingtonian. YOU are a GENTRIFIER from the CVS, Whole Foods, Starbucks & Condos era.
367 posts, read 642,357 times
Reputation: 148
Quote:
Originally Posted by pwright1
How about Bonds, Hahn Shoes, Lerners, Dash's, Safeway International, Regal Shoes, Up Against The Wall.
Yes I remember all of those place.
The DC area was an entirely different world back then.
Gentrifiers & transplants have no idea. Not a clue.
None whatsoever.
Location: YOU are NOT a Washingtonian. YOU are a GENTRIFIER from the CVS, Whole Foods, Starbucks & Condos era.
367 posts, read 642,357 times
Reputation: 148
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluefly
You're so defensive, man. Relax. I never said there weren't hardware stores and such before; you keep making that strawman. I pointed out that there are many local stores opening up or staying in business today because you keep falsely saying only national chains are opening. Some of the older stores just keep moving east for cheaper rent.
What you're missing is that the middle class retail you keep boasting about was on a long, slow decline throughout the 70s, 80s, and 90s. Your youth is relevant because you're remembering fondly good times from a snapshot in time but not seeing the larger trend that started off with a solid, stable, community back when my grandparents settled here and ended up with massive vacancies by the 90s.
You're trying to capture a moment that was more like a fading gasp of life without any long-term structure for viability. The city was racking up massive debt by the 80s and 90s; it needed extensive social programs but was losing a tax base to pay for it. That's not going to be obvious while you're skateboarding on the street as a teen; it takes a more adult perspective to see those looming structural problems.
Now, is an excessively expensive city the answer? I don't think so.
In the end, it's all so subjective, I don't get why you keep arguing about it. Was Chicago a better city before it developed a world-class restaurant scene? I also avoid Times Square in New York in favor of more authentic parts of that city. A lot of people genuinely miss the old Times Square filled with sex shops and drug dealers. Key West was arguably a lot more interesting before the cruise ships and big money arrived.
Logan Circle was once an epicenter of wealth back in the 1920s. Why is your Logan Circle the real one? Was 14th Street better before artists got incentives from the city to fill abandoned buildings with places like Source Theater and Studio Theater? It certainly was more interesting in a lot of ways, but a good night of theater has its value.
It's a trade-off. I don't think there's a right answer so I'm not going around this carousel with you anymore. It just was what it was and now it is what it is.
People call the old DC the real one because it was filled with local businesses that were open for 30, 40, 50, 60 & 70+ years.
Why do you keep dodging the "where are you from/how long have you been living in DC" question?
We already have another poster on here who tried to use "I had family & relatives in DC" as an explanation for their supposed knowledge of what was going on in DC decades before they arrived here.
At this point, I already know how long you have been living here just by reading some of your comments.
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