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Originally Posted by DCforever View Post
Their children are still in elementary school. As they move up in grade the quality will move with them.
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Originally Posted by BajanYankee
Right.
We saw how this same proposal played out with Eastern. It failed. Even with a new IB program, the school doesn't have one, single solitary white student.
Magnet/specialty schools always come with a tough political fight. And it's not even the residents who get pissed off about them (many do), but rather the teacher's unions that can stop such proposals dead in their tracks. They are well-funded and can throw down in both the political and legal arenas when necessary.
Recognize that groups like Moms on the Hill have quite a bit of political power and focus much of it on the schools their children go to. It's not by chance that the elementary schools on Capital Hill are among the best in the city, even better than the best of the charter schools. Do you really think that their efforts won't be extended to middle schools when their children are old enough?
I agree the entrenched school bureaucracy has a very poor record. I'm not talking about them making the improvements. It's the affluent parents of children using the political process.
Recognize that groups like Moms on the Hill have quite a bit of political power and focus much of it on the schools their children go to. It's not by chance that the elementary schools on Capital Hill are among the best in the city, even better than the best of the charter schools. Do you really think that their efforts won't be extended to middle schools when their children are old enough?
The only thing I need to recognize are facts. And the facts are that the number of middle and high school age white children in DC has declined since 2005. Given demographic trends from 2000 forward, you would think that number would be rising, but it's not.
Many of the people who can afford rowhouses on Capitol Hill can afford to send their kids to Sidwell, Maret, Georgetown Country Day, Gonzaga, etc. So they're not really worried about the state of DCPS. You also have a lot of young transients who don't plan on sticking around the region long. So even if many DC neighborhoods become whiter, you may only wind up with a handful who end up staying in the city, or even the region, for the long haul.
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Originally Posted by DCforever
I'm not talking about them making the improvements. It's the affluent parents of children using the political process.
You've also got some really affluent parents in Manhattan and that borough still has a lot of crappy public schools. San Francisco also has issues with its school system despite having some of the most affluent whites and Asians in the world. If it were as easy as rich people throwing around their power and influence, then these places would have more quality public schools. The politics, however, don't always make things so easy.
The solution in DC, so far, has been to make the high quality schools bigger. Wilson completed a new building last year and it still doesn't have enough capacity for all of its students. I think Deal will be getting a new building too. You would think one option for white parents would be to send their kids to Banneker, but for whatever reason, they would rather have their kids sit in an overflow room at Wilson or move out of the city altogether. When my cousin graduated from Banneker last year, there were no white students in her class.
The only thing I need to recognize are facts. And the facts are that the number of middle and high school age white children in DC has declined since 2005. Given demographic trends from 2000 forward, you would think that number would be rising, but it's not.
Many of the people who can afford rowhouses on Capitol Hill can afford to send their kids to Sidwell, Maret, Georgetown Country Day, Gonzaga, etc. So they're not really worried about the state of DCPS. You also have a lot of young transients who don't plan on sticking around the region long. So even if many DC neighborhoods become whiter, you may only wind up with a handful who end up staying in the city, or even the region, for the long haul.
You've also got some really affluent parents in Manhattan and that borough still has a lot of crappy public schools. San Francisco also has issues with its school system despite having some of the most affluent whites and Asians in the world. If it were as easy as rich people throwing around their power and influence, then these places would have more quality public schools. The politics, however, don't always make things so easy.
The solution in DC, so far, has been to make the high quality schools bigger. Wilson completed a new building last year and it still doesn't have enough capacity for all of its students. I think Deal will be getting a new building too. You would think one option for white parents would be to send their kids to Banneker, but for whatever reason, they would rather have their kids sit in an overflow room at Wilson or move out of the city altogether. When my cousin graduated from Banneker last year, there were no white students in her class.
Many of the whites moving here for the long haul are SINKs and DINKs who don't plan to have kids. The number of children in general in the school system is dropping even while the population increases. I bought a house, but I don't have kids, and no plans to have kids. So this is why in many urban areas the schools do not improve. Cities in general are attracting the 1/5 of the population who will not have children, and don't want to be around the child centered culture of the burbs. So you end up with more of an adult centered culture, but also raising prices. One of the aspects of gentrifiers is no kids in the classic sense is no kids, thus dropping school populations in gentrifying neighborhoods. In many ways DC is seeing the classic aspects of gentrification.
Many of the whites moving here for the long haul are SINKs and DINKs who don't plan to have kids. The number of children in general in the school system is dropping even while the population increases. I bought a house, but I don't have kids, and no plans to have kids. So this is why in many urban areas the schools do not improve. Cities in general are attracting the 1/5 of the population who will not have children, and don't want to be around the child centered culture of the burbs. So you end up with more of an adult centered culture, but also raising prices. One of the aspects of gentrifiers is no kids in the classic sense is no kids, thus dropping school populations in gentrifying neighborhoods. In many ways DC is seeing the classic aspects of gentrification.
Yep. Here is the 10 to 17 age bracket for White, non-Hispanics as a percentage of the White, non-Hispanic population in each city.
Philly - 5.8%
ATL - 4.6%
Chicago - 4.4%
NYC - 4.2%
Boston - 3.0%
SF - 2.8% DC - 2.5%
My guess is that most of the white families with older children live west of the park (zoned for Janney/Murch, Deal/Hardy and Wilson).
And actually, the people moving into the District recognize that you are wrong. Asians and Hispanics, as they can afford the higher priced real estate, will follow suit and move to the District, just like their white and black professional colleagues.
No, I'm not 'wrong', I am stating the reality. Or maybe I'm not seeing all the Asian families fighting themselves over homes in DC so they can get their kids into the fabulous schools there.
You can pimp DC to your heart's content, but you might want to latch on to something other than its school system.
Yep. Here is the 10 to 17 age bracket for White, non-Hispanics as a percentage of the White, non-Hispanic population in each city.
Philly - 5.8%
ATL - 4.6%
Chicago - 4.4%
NYC - 4.2%
Boston - 3.0%
SF - 2.8% DC - 2.5%
My guess is that most of the white families with older children live west of the park (zoned for Janney/Murch, Deal/Hardy and Wilson).
This is not just sort of true, but very true.
Again I moved east of RCP because schools did not matter much to me. Libraries, Amenities, and Metro Access were important. Those are the three good things about my neighborhood, the school...not so much. More than half the households in my neighborhood have no kids, it's a mix of older retirees (mostly black), and younger and middle aged white SINKS and DINKS. People make the assumption these people will have kids eventually, but people should not make that assumption for urban whites. Many of us have no interest in ever having children. This does change the dynamics of the city, and I would be the first to admit it, and may be part of the increased prices.
And actually, the people moving into the District recognize that you are wrong. Asians and Hispanics, as they can afford the higher priced real estate, will follow suit and move to the District, just like their white and black professional colleagues.
The Asians with families living in Potomac, Rockville, McLean and Ashburn could readily afford DC. They do not see a compelling reason to live there because they prefer suburban public schools and their jobs tend to be in the suburbs. The Asian population in DC will increase over time, but it will have less to do with their rising income levels than with their moving into fields like law and lobbying where there traditionally have been fewer Asians. And they will be among the last to send their kids to DCPS in significant numbers unless the school can offer a program of particular interest, like a Yu Ying charter.
All of which speaks to the notion that Asians aren't likely to stand in the way of DC's single, white population continuing to grow at a faster rate than other cohorts in the city.
People who repeat the "DC schools suck" are suburbanites who have no clue about how fast DC schools are being turned around by the influx of young affluent parents with school age children. This group used to move to the suburbs or put their children in private school. It's not happening any more, they are yanking the local schools up to acceptable standards.
DC public schools still have a long way to go. I'm a young affluent parent in Capitol Hill and have the option of okay public schools. We decided to stay in the city and did not move to the suburbs. However, after reviewing all the options we picked Saint Peter School on 3rd Street.
Last edited by BeltwayCFA; 02-13-2014 at 02:29 PM..
In Census Tract 12 (Tenleytown), 12.9% of the White, non-Hispanic population is 17 and under.
In Census Tract 70.52 (Chevy Chase, MD), 26% of the White, non-Hispanic population is 17 and under.
What do you think accounts for the difference? The difference is even more stark when looking at middle school and high school age children. The MD Census tract has 219 more children between the ages of 10 and 17 despite having 1,040 fewer residents than the Tenleytown tract.
Could it be the schools? Montgomery County Schools are good, but are they really THAT much better than Janney, Deal and Wilson?
It can't be crime. I haven't checked the crime reports, but I don't think the Tenleytown crowd has to worry much about muggings, shootings, etc. I could be wrong though.
Georgetown (Census Tract 1) fares a little better than Tenleytown. 15.6% of the White, non-Hispanics there are 17 and under. But again, there's a dearth of middle and high school age children. Georgetown has 212 fewer children between the ages of 10 and 17 despite having 1,484 more people than Chevy Chase.
Good schools, wealthy people, low crime but fewer children. Any thoughts on why this might be the case?
The Asian population in DC has grown from 1% in 1980 to 3.5% in 2010. Hispanic has grown from 0 to 9%. There no reason to believe those trends will not continue.
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