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Because in Chicago, people from Kenosha Wisconsin to nearly SouthBend Indiana all feels the same. Wisconsin lites frequently, nearly every other day visit Indiana.
You won’t see Virginians and Marylanders cross the border like the Wisconsin folk and Indianan folk do in Chicagoland (Chicago people always leave the city to Indiana).
That’s very different from the Washington-Baltimore region where you’ll see very little train service, Virginians and MDer’s don’t really go to each other’s state. I don’t know anyone in Northern Virginia or DC who would ever take a job in say Howard county and people in say Howard would never take a job in Bethesda, the District, etc. That’s crazy talk.
Washington DC clearly just has a totally different identity. From Spotsylvania to Loudon County, clearly they are under the thumb culturally, politically, etc of Washington in a way that Howard and other MD’s don’t culturally fit.
The anecdotal evidence of why Baltimore & Washington isn’t really a CSA are poor examples of why they are actually separate. Have y’all seen typical CSA’s before? Are people in Manhattan visiting the PA hinterlands of NY on the regular?
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I personally think Manassas, Fredicksburg, Leesburg, Culpeper all feel totally the same and separate from the rest of the metropolitan area. Baltimore and the area in between feel much more integrated in nearly every way. Mass transit, jobs, etc But I’m not going to say “I’ve only driven through Mannasscrack once, it’s a separate identity from DC” so it’s not really the DC metropolitan area.
Because in Chicago, people from Kenosha Wisconsin to nearly SouthBend Indiana all feels the same. Wisconsin lites frequently, nearly every other day visit Indiana.
You won’t see Virginians and Marylanders cross the border like the Wisconsin folk and Indianan folk do in Chicagoland (Chicago people always leave the city to Indiana).
That’s very different from the Washington-Baltimore region where you’ll see very little train service, Virginians and MDer’s don’t really go to each other’s state. I don’t know anyone in Northern Virginia or DC who would ever take a job in say Howard county and people in say Howard would never take a job in Bethesda, the District, etc. That’s crazy talk.
Washington DC clearly just has a totally different identity. From Spotsylvania to Loudon County, clearly they are under the thumb culturally, politically, etc of Washington in a way that Howard and other MD’s don’t culturally fit.
The anecdotal evidence of why Baltimore & Washington isn’t really a CSA are poor examples of why they are actually separate. Have y’all seen typical CSA’s before? Are people in Manhattan visiting the PA hinterlands of NY on the regular?
.
I personally think Manassas, Fredicksburg, Leesburg, Culpeper all feel totally the same and separate from the rest of the metropolitan area. Baltimore and the area in between feel much more integrated in nearly every way. Mass transit, jobs, etc But I’m not going to say “I’ve only driven through Mannasscrack once, it’s a separate identity from DC” so it’s not really the DC metropolitan area.
Thousands and thousands and thousands and… cross the bridges between MD and Virginia everyday, both ways. For jobs, and other purposes. I see tons of MD tags in Nova, and when I lived in MD, I saw tons of Virginia tags driving around. I’m not sure that I agree or understand your comment.
Thousands and thousands and thousands and… cross the bridges between MD and Virginia everyday, both ways. For jobs, and other purposes. I see tons of MD tags in Nova, and when I lived in MD, I saw tons of Virginia tags driving around. I’m not sure that I agree or understand your comment.
Same here. I'll concede that Md, and Va are more culturally different from each other, than are Wi, Il, and In.
Also, that there is more green space in the DC area, results in less density, and consequently fewer transit options.
Location: That star on your map in the middle of the East Coast, DMV
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I worked in Arlington VA with people commuting from places as far as Baltimore County, MD, West Virginia, and Caroline county, VA outside of Richmond, and this mostly was by car. This region has always been a region of super commuters.
To ignore that or insinuate people are not cross existing/commuting across multiple counties is being very disingenuous. Just cause regional rail here could use an ample boost to connect places better, does not mean the cross connection does not already exist. In fact adding more rail links is about 2 and a half decades past due.
CSA is basically just a statistical measure of a broad
overlapping but not cohesive economic regions. There is obviously some overlap as DCs orbit pulls people from AA and Howard counties, and people in DC use BWI. But, for the most part DCB overtaking Chi says more about how irrelevant this measure is in the real world that is does about how big either metro is.
Some sort of prorated measure would make more sense for how the real world operates. That way you don't end up with silly things like Havre De Grace Md and Winchester VA (133 miles) being lumped together in a CSA but Philly and Trenton NJ aren't (33 miles.)
DC and Philly would probably be in the 7 million range, Chicago would be a little over 9 mil.
Realistically, I think UAs are the best measure for how big a city feels. I'm curious to see if DC has overtaken Philly on that measure yet?
Because in Chicago, people from Kenosha Wisconsin to nearly SouthBend Indiana all feels the same. Wisconsin lites frequently, nearly every other day visit Indiana.
You won’t see Virginians and Marylanders cross the border like the Wisconsin folk and Indianan folk do in Chicagoland (Chicago people always leave the city to Indiana).
That’s very different from the Washington-Baltimore region where you’ll see very little train service, Virginians and MDer’s don’t really go to each other’s state. I don’t know anyone in Northern Virginia or DC who would ever take a job in say Howard county and people in say Howard would never take a job in Bethesda, the District, etc. That’s crazy talk.
Washington DC clearly just has a totally different identity. From Spotsylvania to Loudon County, clearly they are under the thumb culturally, politically, etc of Washington in a way that Howard and other MD’s don’t culturally fit.
The anecdotal evidence of why Baltimore & Washington isn’t really a CSA are poor examples of why they are actually separate. Have y’all seen typical CSA’s before? Are people in Manhattan visiting the PA hinterlands of NY on the regular?
.
I personally think Manassas, Fredicksburg, Leesburg, Culpeper all feel totally the same and separate from the rest of the metropolitan area. Baltimore and the area in between feel much more integrated in nearly every way. Mass transit, jobs, etc But I’m not going to say “I’ve only driven through Mannasscrack once, it’s a separate identity from DC” so it’s not really the DC metropolitan area.
I can tell you’re a transplant. You can’t even spell a couple of the places names that you mentioned in your post. Your Charlotte485 handle is a dead giveaway too. No one here pretends that every town in the DC area has the same vibe.
Yea I wouldn’t take a job in Howard county because it is far, not because it is in MD. Trust me, I know I went to tech school in Howard county 4 days a week for about a year. It wasn’t the best commute. I know people who lived in Arlington who would commute up to Rockville for work, many people do a very similar commute.
You think Culpeper feels totally the same as Leesburg? You probably have only been to these places maybe a couple of times since you moved to this area, because that is definitely a ridiculous statement.
Also please qualify what you mean by this statement.
Washington DC clearly just has a totally different identity. From Spotsylvania to Loudon County, clearly they are under the thumb culturally, politically, etc of Washington in a way that Howard and other MD’s don’t culturally fit.
To agree with above posters- I am not sure I fully agree on the comment that VA and MD never go to one another's states - a TON of people commute from Maryland to Northern Virginia daily for work. There are also plenty who go the opposite from Northern Virginia up to the 270 corridor in Maryland. Southern Howard County communities like Fulton are closer to downtown DC than eastern Loudoun communities so there is a lot of commuting. Same with Anne Arundel County even though it is Baltimore MSA.
I can tell you’re a transplant. You can’t even spell a couple of the places names that you mentioned in your post. Your Charlotte485 handle is a dead giveaway too. No one here pretends that every town in the DC area has the same vibe.
Yea I wouldn’t take a job in Howard county because it is far, not because it is in MD. Trust me, I know I went to tech school in Howard county 4 days a week for about a year. It wasn’t the best commute. I know people who lived in Arlington who would commute up to Rockville for work, many people do a very similar commute.
You think Culpeper feels totally the same as Leesburg? You probably have only been to these places maybe a couple of times since you moved to this area, because that is definitely a ridiculous statement.
Also please qualify what you mean by this statement.
Washington DC clearly just has a totally different identity. From Spotsylvania to Loudon County, clearly they are under the thumb culturally, politically, etc of Washington in a way that Howard and other MD’s don’t culturally fit.
Over 4 years in a transient city with a username of Charlotte485. I guess my cover is blown that I’m not a native Washingtonian.
I’m simply responding to what I think is an overblown “but Baltimore & Washington metropolitan areas are so different and independent of eachother”. The proximity alone between the two makes it seem very rational the two are a legit Combined Statistical Area as much as any other CSA.
Yes. Culpeper & Leesburg to me feel like they belong in the same metropolitan region. I think a lot of the exurban VA counties have a vibe - different from DC & the inner VA suburbs - and the MD side heading towards Baltimore have a distinct vibe. I don’t think that changes the fact that The Baltimore-Washington area is a legit CSA. One could make similar arguments about San Jose - San Francisco - Oakland. I’d be shocked if they didn’t have posters going on and on about San Jose being distinct etc
Long story short. I think the strong feelings about Baltimore & Washington being so separate enough to not be a CSA is more emotional than going by the criteria every other CSA is based upon.
Over 4 years in a transient city with a username of Charlotte485. I guess my cover is blown that I’m not a native Washingtonian.
I’m simply responding to what I think is an overblown “but Baltimore & Washington metropolitan areas are so different and independent of eachother”. The proximity alone between the two makes it seem very rational the two are a legit Combined Statistical Area as much as any other CSA.
Yes. Culpeper & Leesburg to me feel like they belong in the same metropolitan region. I think a lot of the exurban VA counties have a vibe - different from DC & the inner VA suburbs - and the MD side heading towards Baltimore have a distinct vibe. I don’t think that changes the fact that The Baltimore-Washington area is a legit CSA. One could make similar arguments about San Jose - San Francisco - Oakland. I’d be shocked if they didn’t have posters going on and on about San Jose being distinct etc
Long story short. I think the strong feelings about Baltimore & Washington being so separate enough to not be a CSA is more emotional than going by the criteria every other CSA is based upon.
Culpeper is a true exurb that is hardly in the DC metro region, and a lot wouldn’t consider to be in the region at all. Honestly Culpeper has closer ties to Charlottesville imo than anywhere in the DC region. I guess all of the MD and DC license plates at Loudoun’s wineries are a figment of my imagination.
I guess the large employment center that is known as the Dulles tech corridor that is tied in with Loudoun and much of the closer in suburbs is a figment of my imagination. I guess the silver line going out to Ashburn, which will be less than 12 miles from Leesburg doesn’t tie it into the closer in suburbs or the city. Yep Leesburg is exactly like Culpeper and is about as integrated into the DC region as Culpeper is. Lol
A lot of exurbs have a different vibe in general from closer in suburbs all across the country. The question is whether Loudoun is in the same realm to be called an exurban county, especially when being compared to Culpeper county. They aren’t really that comparable imo, save for far western Loudoun maybe.
Culpeper is a true exurb that is hardly in the DC metro region, and a lot wouldn’t consider to be in the region at all. Honestly Culpeper has closer ties to Charlottesville imo than anywhere in the DC region. I guess all of the MD and DC license plates at Loudoun’s wineries are a figment of my imagination.
I guess the large employment center that is known as the Dulles tech corridor that is tied in with Loudoun and much of the closer in suburbs is a figment of my imagination. I guess the silver line going out to Ashburn, which will be less than 12 miles from Leesburg doesn’t tie it into the closer in suburbs or the city. Yep Leesburg is exactly like Culpeper and is about as integrated into the DC region as Culpeper is. Lol
A lot of exurbs have a different vibe in general from closer in suburbs all across the country. The question is whether Loudoun is in the same realm to be called an exurban county, especially when being compared to Culpeper county. They aren’t really that comparable imo, save for far western Loudoun maybe.
I think you're too hung up on the fact I've only lived in DC in the same neighborhood for 4 years so you want to wag your tail about Culpeper and Charlottesville and places I frankly don't care about. I've worked in Tysons on the same team for 4 years. I have a lot of colleagues from Warrenton, Culpeper, Leesburg, Ashburn, Vienna. Our happy hours tend to be in Tysons & team outings in Leesburg. It'll be much better to visit my friend who lives in Ashburn once the Silver Line Extension is open... How many years do you think it takes to become familiar with a place? 10?
Maybe I just wasn't clear on my sarcasm earlier. There is a bunch of traffic between people going between the two states within the CSA. There is a lot of interaction between the MD and VA side of the CSA.
I'm simple getting at the Washington-Baltimore is a Combined Statistical Area as much as anywhere else and that Baltimore isn't so secluded from Washington, D.C. The topic of Washington and Baltimore being within the same CSA derails so many topics for pages and pages on the main forum. Pages of "Baltimore is distinct! it's not really the same CSA, there is no interaction, they don't have much cooperation, well then Baltimore is the 3rd largest CSA" and it gets old. It gets old reading it from Chicago folks who say it's not really one area, it gets old hearing it from Baltimore people who insist they "stand on their own". Because it seems emotional. Personal anecdotal travel habits that don't reflect the true commuting patterns/interactions. Maybe someone who lives in Ashburn thinks Baltimore is just totally separate but someone from Silver Spring might view BWI more convenient than IAD or Baltimore more convenient than Loudon.
Leesburg, Culpeper, etc. is all exurban fringe DC MSA towns to me. If you want to go ahead and point out all the ways the far out towns in the VA Metro area are so unique and different from each other and this and that because you're a local yocal, by all means. They'll all feel similar to me whether I'm here 4 years or 40 years....
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