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Old 05-25-2013, 12:24 PM
 
1,980 posts, read 3,758,300 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Botev1912 View Post
I didn't say high taxes mean faster fix. I meant bridges wouldn't collapse in the first place if taxes are higher because when taxes are low there is no money for regular maintenance.

High/excessive taxation levels will just chase business away (and add incentive towards black market activity) = less govt. revenues. The transportation related taxes in WA are not low at all. Our gas tax is one of the highest. The answer is to properly allocate resources. Stop requiring projects to spend $ on art is one easy way to free up more revenue for infrastructure. Stopping the lawyers and environmental special interests from sucking away a huge percentage of the money for large projects is another way to save $, but those special interest groups are allies of the party that has ruled this state for over a quarter of a century, so I don't see that changing anytime soon.
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Old 05-25-2013, 01:49 PM
 
Location: US Empire, Pac NW
5,003 posts, read 12,326,666 times
Reputation: 4125
Hmm ... I'm going to be taking the Anacortes ferry to Victoria BC for the 4th of July. There's four routes it appears I can take:

- Jog over to Hwy 9 and then take 20 over,
- take I-5 and get off at Division / 536
- get off at 534 / Fir Island and take the back roads
- take the Mukilteo/Clinton ferry (would add 1 hr 30 min to my trip according to Google ... and add the cost of the ferry too)

Anyone have experience driving these? Which do ya think would be the best? I think the 536/Division route would be the most jammed ... or perhaps Hwy 9 would be ... dunno, never had to detour before.
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Old 05-25-2013, 04:01 PM
 
4,483 posts, read 9,257,489 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eskercurve View Post
Hmm ... I'm going to be taking the Anacortes ferry to Victoria BC for the 4th of July. There's four routes it appears I can take:

- Jog over to Hwy 9 and then take 20 over,
- take I-5 and get off at Division / 536
- get off at 534 / Fir Island and take the back roads
- take the Mukilteo/Clinton ferry (would add 1 hr 30 min to my trip according to Google ... and add the cost of the ferry too)

Anyone have experience driving these? Which do ya think would be the best? I think the 536/Division route would be the most jammed ... or perhaps Hwy 9 would be ... dunno, never had to detour before.
It's too soon to tell. People will be adjusting their routes too much over the next week or so. You should ask again closer to your trip.

As of today, . . .

Today on the radio they were telling people to off at College Way, cross on the other bridge, and get back on. As of today, that is the worst option, and I notice you didn't even mention it.

Hwy 9 is busy but not stopped, but it takes you way out of your way. It will take longer than the others, but you will feel like you are making progress - most of the way. At the traffic circle where 9 meets College Way, you may have to wait, and just north of the circle there is a little bridge (not over the Skagit) that is too narrow for a truck and a car both - so maybe a little waiting there, too. You'll also have to go through Clear Lake, with its 25 mph limit.

I could see the Division bridge from where I was, and it didn't look extremely slow, but you have to get off at Kincaid (there is no Division exit) and go through the narrow streets of downtown to get there.

Fir Island should be okay, unless the increased traffic between now and then breaks the Best Road Bridge, which is the only one of your options actually rated "deficient." You're not driving a truck, are you?
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Old 05-25-2013, 05:41 PM
 
Location: We_tside PNW (Columbia Gorge) / CO / SA TX / Thailand
34,633 posts, read 57,651,190 times
Reputation: 46069
Probably be fixed by Monday if they can patch in the 'Bailey Bridge' option (and the rest is deemed OK).
Bailey bridge - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

There are probably a few spans laying in the back lot of WSDOT that will 'drop-right-in'

Gonna be a pain with the trashed one in the way, and mating with existing overhead truss spans. But in general, a very EZ fix, and GREAT Overtime pay for a holiday weekend! (triple time pay!... I remember that in the 'good-ole-days'.)

Glad there were not serious injury... AMAZING.
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Old 05-26-2013, 02:25 PM
 
Location: Minnesota
5,147 posts, read 7,449,318 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Botev1912 View Post
I don't believe a truck hitting the bridge is able to cause a collapse if the bridge is stable. If it's that easy to break it, then the bridge is garbage.
Like the I35 bridge, the design of this bridge means a single fracture will bring it down. I believe they've stopped designing that way years ago. Minneapolis got a first rate bridge because so many people died and the families and their lawyers brought such huge lawsuits. The small impact of this failure on drivers on or near the bridge might mute the government's response. Too bad. The I5 bridges, for the whole length of the highway, should be up to current standards for the volume of traffic they serve. The blind austerity focus of certain elected officials really is a raised finger to drivers across the land. There are many things where economy can be suitably practiced. But when both transport of goods and human life are at stake, "economy" should be a dirty word.

My question: The trucker had a pilot car. Is that person supposed to be informed about the highway? Did that person have a radio. Did that person tell the driver "move to the other lane"? The news accounts say there's only one lane on the bridge suitable for oversize loads. Could that person now be a defendant in lawsuits?
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Old 05-26-2013, 05:03 PM
 
4,483 posts, read 9,257,489 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beenhere4ever View Post
My question: The trucker had a pilot car. Is that person supposed to be informed about the highway? Did that person have a radio. Did that person tell the driver "move to the other lane"? The news accounts say there's only one lane on the bridge suitable for oversize loads. Could that person now be a defendant in lawsuits?
According to the local paper, that person (so far not named) did have a radio but did not say anything about that bridge. The driver had been issued a permit for his 15' 9" load, but no signs indicated that in the right lane it was as low as 14' 6". Common sense says there should be a sign as you approach the bridge, but apparently no law says there must be, and there is no such sign.

http://www.goskagit.com/news/local_n...a4bcf887a.html

And now there's an actual plan: Get a temporary span in place within a few weeks, then begin building the permanent replacement, finishing in the fall. It looks like they'll be replacing only the collapsed part, not the entire bridge. While the temporary fix is in place, there will be a lower speed limit, and drivers will still be encouraged to use alternate routes. The article says, "reduced speed and capacity" but does not tell how the reduced capacity will be achieved.

http://www.goskagit.com/news/local_n...9bb2963f4.html
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Old 05-26-2013, 06:23 PM
 
Location: Minnesota
5,147 posts, read 7,449,318 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sll3454 View Post
According to the local paper, that person (so far not named) did have a radio but did not say anything about that bridge. The driver had been issued a permit for his 15' 9" load, but no signs indicated that in the right lane it was as low as 14' 6". Common sense says there should be a sign as you approach the bridge, but apparently no law says there must be, and there is no such sign.

Truck driver says no indication height would be a problem - Goskagit.com: Local News

And now there's an actual plan: Get a temporary span in place within a few weeks, then begin building the permanent replacement, finishing in the fall. It looks like they'll be replacing only the collapsed part, not the entire bridge. While the temporary fix is in place, there will be a lower speed limit, and drivers will still be encouraged to use alternate routes. The article says, "reduced speed and capacity" but does not tell how the reduced capacity will be achieved.

Temporary bridge span planned until permanent bridge opens in fall - Goskagit.com: Local News
Well, for sure there should have been a sign but also a "pilot" doesn't need signs. Harbor pilots go by their familiarity with the harbor. They don't look for signs to tell them where the channel is. I think the company shouldn't pay the pilot.
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Old 05-26-2013, 11:46 PM
 
Location: We_tside PNW (Columbia Gorge) / CO / SA TX / Thailand
34,633 posts, read 57,651,190 times
Reputation: 46069
The Pilot company WILL be held responsible, as will the driver (who will loose his CDL / gainful employment), the company that employed him (who will lose their ICC authority and insurance), and ALSO responsible is WSDOT who issued the permit for an OVERSIZE load that was truly OVERSIZED beyond the height clearance approved.

Pilot car with pole had driven the route the day before, Also was leading the truck at time of mishap. Very unfortunate and many lessons learned from somehting that was so preventable. BUT was probable.

Insurance WILL NOT cover this level of loss... especially with SO many reasons to avoid paying, and the state being partially to blame. Lawyers will do very well and a few companies with go bankrupt and a few individuals will starve / lose their houses / livelihood / income during trial & investigation. Really too bad, and Really an EZ mistake to make on driver's behalf... There were probably cars in center lane AND by permit he is REQUIRED to stay out of Left Lane....

Shoulda, woulda, coulda... Darn.. Now to get through the mess and resolve to not repeat THIS mistake. The driver WILL NEVER have the opportunity to apply his learnings in that profession again. We all make 'career decisions' daily. Just glad no loss of life. Tough to live with for those who have done mis-steps leading to THAT.
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Old 05-27-2013, 08:18 AM
 
4,794 posts, read 12,337,836 times
Reputation: 8397
Quote:
Originally Posted by Botev1912 View Post
This is what happens when citizens want low taxes
Or it could also be what happens when the government promises an $800 billion "stimulus plan" , mostly for infrastructure, where most of the money never gets to where it is suppose to go, but instead goes to a bunch of nonsense that creates a handful of pointless jobs in particular city, like Seattle.
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Old 05-27-2013, 09:45 AM
 
4,483 posts, read 9,257,489 times
Reputation: 5769
Quote:
Originally Posted by StealthRabbit View Post
There were probably cars in center lane AND by permit he is REQUIRED to stay out of Left Lane....
According to the driver, another truck was trying to pass on his left just as he was getting on the bridge. There is no center lane, just two in each direction. (It may be a "main artery," but it's a narrow one.)
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