In your mind, what defines northwest culture? (Seattle, Yakima: gas, place)

[j_k_k]

Originally Posted by cdelena

Correct! There are city and country areas, some red and blue politics, and wet and dry climates. It varies broadly so in truth there is no single PNW culture.

One might even go so far as to say that that mix of all of the above itself is a definer of Northwest culture. Without the great agricultural products of the inland regions in all three relevant states, I think the fooderies of the big cities would be the poorer. Although I think the original question involved coastal culture, which could be thought to exclude inland regions, and at some point surely must (so that we don't draw the line someplace preposterous, like Miles City).

It's also perhaps worth adding, if no one has, that BC is far more similar in outlook to Washington or Oregon than to, say, Alberta, especially as one reaches the Fraser Valley.

[PS90]

Originally Posted by j_k_k

One might even go so far as to say that that mix of all of the above itself is a definer of Northwest culture. Without the great agricultural products of the inland regions in all three relevant states, I think the fooderies of the big cities would be the poorer. Although I think the original question involved coastal culture, which could be thought to exclude inland regions, and at some point surely must (so that we don't draw the line someplace preposterous, like Miles City).

It's also perhaps worth adding, if no one has, that BC is far more similar in outlook to Washington or Oregon than to, say, Alberta, especially as one reaches the Fraser Valley.

Well said. And I think that is part of what makes NW culture hard to define. If you look to the South (Mississippi, Alabama, Georgia, Louisiana), for example, the classic parts of Southern culture - Southern accents, Southern hospitality, Southern Cooking (fried food, etc) are true of almost ALL people and ALL regions of the South, not just Atlanta or Birmingham (as examples). There is little that defines NW culture that is true of ALL of the NW.

[Seacove]

Originally Posted by PS90

I have merely pointed out that there are other cultures in our area, not just "Seattle culture". Just because the culture of your area has more people, doesn't make it the "correct" culture of the PNW. There is no right or wrong answer to the OP's question - and pointing out that you have more people "on your team" was nothing more than an attempt to de-value the comments others have made about other (non-Seattle) cultures of the state.

I should ignore this because this has become silly but my original comment was not to you, it was simply a response to someone else that yes, as you get into the rural areas it becomes more, they used Idaho-like, but that the largest population resides in the metros so not like that is the overwhelming tone of the state. I do not consider Washington state Idaho-like, see no similarity and for the areas that do like that, fine, but it does not represent PNW culture. I'm not sure why you are still responding to a population map but it's just numbers, nothing more and certainly not controversial.

[Deezus]

Originally Posted by Seacove

Absolutely correct that when you get outside of the big cities it feels more rural; the counties outside of the big cities are also much much smaller. Over half the Washington state population resides in three counties.



WSDOT - Population Growth in Relation to the State's Counties

That's true in probably most US states--except for a few with multiple large metros. Even in California over 40 percent of the population lives in just three southern counties--Los Angeles, San Diego and Orange--with well over 25 percent just living in Los Angeles County. All the same, I grew up in Northern California and I grew up knowing more about Oregon than Los Angeles--and if you made the assertion that California culture was just LA, I'd laugh at you.

All I was pointing out was that the liberal urban stereotypes of the Northwest are hardly the dominant image once you travel around the entire region. Even in the Seattle metro--once you get out of the core of the city and into the somewhat moderate and average masses of suburbia(which could basically be almost anywhere in the US), you get to a sort of general western vibe towards the edges, before you even leave the metro. Much of the Northwest outside the cities just reminds me of the rural country of Northern California or places in the Rocky Mountain West... It's pretty standard pickup and country music country. As I pointed out there's a real average suburban vibe in much of Seattle and Portland(and Vancouver) suburbs as well--and that makes up a good chunk of the population also. But people move to the Northwest and have this idea that everything is going to be Capitol Hill or Hawthorne or Kitsilano... Even in the largest and dominant cities of the region--that's just one portion of the culture.

Also I was talking about the entire Northwest, not simply Washington--which surprise--actually includes Oregon and Idaho as well.

[PS90]

Originally Posted by Seacove

I should ignore this because this has become silly but my original comment was not to you, it was simply a response to someone else that yes, as you get into the rural areas it becomes more, they used Idaho-like, but that the largest population resides in the metros so not like that is the overwhelming tone of the state. I do not consider Washington state Idaho-like, see no similarity and for the areas that do like that, fine, but it does not represent PNW culture. I'm not sure why you are still responding to a population map but it's just numbers, nothing more and certainly not controversial.

Okay. I understand your point-of-view on everything except what I highlighted - considering that the generally-accepted PNW states are Oregon, Washington and IDAHO, I guess I don't understand how Idaho does not represent PNW culture. Again the OP asked about PNW culture, not Western WA culture.

EDIT: Sorry, Deezus beat me to this comment. I didn't read his/her post first.

[Gentoo]

Originally Posted by Deezus

There isn't really such a thing as a really distinct Northwestern culture. Oregon and Washington were just similar to the culture of most of the rest of the West until recently. Same thing with California.

People are asked to provide examples of western Northwestern culture and all that comes up is coffee and salmon and rain... That's hardly a culture. People love the outdoors everywhere in the western US.

I tend to agree with this. NW culture is hard to define as it is fairly new and shares a lot with other regions. Outdoor activities are very popular including hiking and water sports, but CA is also known for these things. Salmon is often associated with NW culture, but this is also true for Alaska. With Seattle you think Dungeness Crab, but San Francisco is also known for that. IMO, NW culture can be hard to distinguish from that of Northern California. I think one of the more distinctive features would be the walking along a pebble beach on a cloudy day. Also the quirkiness the PNW has is also unique to it.

[Seacove]

Originally Posted by PS90

Okay. I understand your point-of-view on everything except what I highlighted - considering that the generally-accepted PNW states are Oregon, Washington and IDAHO, I guess I don't understand how Idaho does not represent PNW culture. Again the OP asked about PNW culture, not Western WA culture.

All of this over a population map. If you think the largest portion of the WA State population does not really represent NW culture and Idaho (with a population smaller than Seattle) does, nothing is stopping you. I'll continue to think Idaho is more representative of Montana and Wyoming. IMO Alaska is more culturally NW than Idaho.

[Deezus]

Originally Posted by Seacove

All of this over a population map. If you think the largest portion of the WA State population does not really represent NW culture and Idaho (with a population smaller than Seattle) does, nothing is stopping you. I'll continue to think Idaho is more representative of Montana and Wyoming. IMO Alaska is more culturally NW than Idaho.

Hey man, I never said all of the Northwest was culturally closer to Idaho... I said that Eastern Washington and Eastern Oregon often have more in common with Idaho than Seattle or Portland in many ways and that much of the Northwest outside of the urban cores or a few other places feels very typical in terms of rural western culture in general.

Vancouver, Washington could basically be Boise for all its worth. Puyallup could be a town in the northern part of the Sacramento Valley of California for what's it worth. I spent a month in Shelton, Washington once a town that's not far from Olympia but could be as redneck as anywhere in the West. There's giant summer rodeos and country music festivals just thirty minutes south of Portland. The people who grow up on the Oregon Coast or parts of the Olympic Peninsula are just country folk with a economy based on logging or fishing(instead of ranching or farming) except for the newer transplants. I'm not saying this is the only culture, I'm saying that the culture of Seattle doesn't even really represent the entire Seattle metro from what I've seen...

You can define NW culture however you want, I'm just saying that except for the famous cliches of this region, I don't see a lot of really strong cultural elements that tie the region together. People like the outdoors...okay, that's common all over the Western US.

[PS90]

Originally Posted by Seacove

All of this over a population map. If you think the largest portion of the WA State population does not really represent NW culture and Idaho (with a population smaller than Seattle) does, nothing is stopping you. I'll continue to think Idaho is more representative of Montana and Wyoming. IMO Alaska is more culturally NW than Idaho.

I don't believe any of my comments have been anywhere near as exclusive/close-minded as yours have.

I have tried (obviously in vain) to point out that there are MANY different cultures in WA state, not just Seattle culture, and yet every time you respond by saying "If you think the largest portion of the WA State population does not really represent NW culture and Idaho (with a population smaller than Seattle) does, nothing is stopping you." I re-read through my posts on this thread, and not once did I mention that Seattle culture wasn't important.

I, personally, get offended when it is inferred that Seattle culture is somehow "more important" than other cultures in the NW, because the culture of my area of Washington is VASTLY different than Seattle. And by you pointing-out that we have less population to "back-up" that culture is akin to implying that our culture is not worth mentioning in this thread.

What is so wrong with stating that cultures (other than Seattle) ALSO exist in the NW?

Personally, I love this state, but if the entire NW's culture was that of Seattle, I would have moved away LONG ago.

[sean98125]

It's hard to define particular elements of a Pacific Northwest culture since our population is so transient. There have only been non-aboriginal people here for 150 years or so, and they've come from all over the country. And the influx of people here are still happening, so whatever our culture feels like today is going to be different ten years from now as those people bring their values and concerns with them. And, like much of the west, the people who came here usually did so without their extended families so keeping older cultural traditions alive was more difficult. So our culture has evolved and changed to something much more flexible and DIY. East coast cities became big because people had babies who didn't leave. West coast cities became big when people from every state moved there, leaving their families and old cultures behind.

Northwest culture is transient and changing.