Is Washington the next California? (Seattle, Bellevue: credit, purchase, wage)

[Andy]

Originally Posted by hamellr

Not a Democrat as I have stated many, many times, just stating a fact.

Walmart is an great example. Their "average" full time wage is $15.20 or some such nonsense. What everyone fails to note is that 90+% of their employees are part timers, making barely over minimum wage in most markets. As part time workers they did not qualify for health insurance. This is the exact scenario the ACA was meant to fix.

ACA made things worse!

This is a wide spread retail industry trend for the past decade and a half, one that has been growing. But that growth can not be attributed directly to the ACA, or even be considered a major factor.

Uh, yes it can because it is exactly what has happened to a huge number of workers of the last few years, AND THE EMPLOYERS THEMSELVES were open and honest about why they had to reduce hours or risk being penalized by the terrible job-killing
ACA legislation.

The 40 hour work week for a single lower skilled job is dead, until we liberate America from that terrible, expensive Obamacare legislation.

[Haakon]

Originally Posted by Andy

Seattle does stupid things all the time, but Seattle is too smart to do the above.

Never bet against the stupidity of Seattles elected representatives. Would you have bet in a city with traffic problems they would remove lanes for cars and add them for bikes?

Originally Posted by Gentoo

I agree with this completely. Most areas with higher wages tend to fair better in recessions too. Australia did and I can say from experience, so did San Francisco which has a minimum wage of 10.55 hr. The unemployment rate in that city remained lower than the rest of CA which has a min. wage of 8.00, lower than Washington's and did worse during the recession. The more money people make, the more they tend to spend in general. No sure how that would hurt an economy.

Oh please. The high wages in San Francisco are not due to a higher minimum wage, it's due to Silicon Valley and the tech industry having far lower than average unemployment rates. The median family income in SF is $85,000 the great majority of people there aren't working for minimum wage.

[Pahn]

Originally Posted by Andy

Uh, yes it can because it is exactly what has happened to a huge number of workers of the last few years, AND THE EMPLOYERS THEMSELVES were open and honest about why they had to reduce hours or risk being penalized by the terrible job-killing
ACA legislation.

When has any corporation ever been open or honest?

Let's use some common sense here: corporations are using Obamacare as an excuse for their intolerably bad treatment of the working person. Corporations have been doing everything they can to kill US jobs for decades. It didn't start with Obamacare. To believe otherwise is to simply refuse to see the facts that are plain for everyone else to see (everyone that doesn't have their fingers in their ears and their head in the sand, anyway).

[lady fern]

Originally Posted by sean98125

Higher wages = increased sales of goods and services = increased sales tax revenue.




We have tons of people with higher job skills that are unemployed or underemployed because corporations aren't creating well-paying jobs right now. They're sitting on record amounts of cash, but they aren't investing in workers or in the country.

And, unfortunately, increasing job skills requires an investment of money that people on minimum wage don't have, and it could require additional costs to cover things like child care. And if people were able to get a loan for the education there's no guarantee in the current business climate that they would even be able to get a job that pays well enough to pay back the debt that you're asking them to take on.

The days when a good education or learning a trade translated into middle class wages are gone, at least until businesses start investing in America again.

This is an excuse that allows people to be victims of their situation rather than change it. I worked for minimum wage at the start of my employment life. I worked hard, made connections and moved into a job that paid a few dollars more. Again, I was diligent and made more connections and moved into a lateral pay job where I could learn new skills. The corporate climate of my workplace then negatively changed so I took part in organizing the workplace gaining us a contract with improved wages and employment policies. Once I felt as if I hit my glass ceiling and wanted to improve my situation, I saved and sought out resources so I could go back to school, much of this done while taking night classes after working a full time day. All of this while singularly raising a child.

There are options out there for people who want to improve their situation. There are a number of apprenticeships for skilled trade jobs that provide a paycheck (higher than minimum wage) while you learn. There are still grants available for school for those closest to the poverty level. Plus there are plenty of scholarships out there. Larger employers sometimes offer education reimbursement.

There have been times in my life when I have been pretty darn poor. I never found that the nominal increases in the minimum wage improved my lifestyle. In fact, I generally found that other costs went up with my newfound wages. My financial situation was always improved from the ground up, from hard work on my part, joining a labor organization, and from obtaining a degree in a field that was hiring. Why do we need to consistently turn to the government to improve our situations rather than individually or even collectively as a community of workers solving the problems?

[CarlB328]

Artificially increasing labor costs = less jobs, more under the table jobs

Wrong- minimum wage increases don't cost enough to cut jobs, in fact Washington state found that they are stealing workers from Idaho because of the higher pay. There was an article about this a few years back in the Times, and states like Wa that pay more did better in the recession than most states that don't.

[Gentoo]

Originally Posted by CarlB328

Wrong- minimum wage increases don't cost enough to cut jobs, in fact Washington state found that they are stealing workers from Idaho because of the higher pay. There was an article about this a few years back in the Times, and states like Wa that pay more did better in the recession than most states that don't.

Exactly! I said this earlier in this thread. Some countries like Australia did better in the recession too and they pay the equivalent of 15 or 16 US dollars for minimum wage. the city and county of San Francisco did well too even though it's not the wealthiest county in it's region.

[StealthRabbit]

Originally Posted by Gentoo

Exactly! I said this earlier in this thread. Some countries like Australia did better in the recession too and they pay the equivalent of 15 or 16 US dollars for minimum wage. the city and county of San Francisco did well too even though it's not the wealthiest county in it's region.

and we (USA) should have had all our greenbacks in CDN or AUS dollars for the last 'recession'!!! Imagine "if only..."... thus your Micro economic observations may have Macro economic reasons

[Gentoo]

Originally Posted by StealthRabbit

and we (USA) should have had all our greenbacks in CDN or AUS dollars for the last 'recession'!!! Imagine "if only..."... thus your Micro economic observations may have Macro economic reasons

I'm not sure I understand your response. You do realize I was pointing out similarities of areas with high min wages and how they did in the recession. Not advocating "our greenbacks in CDN or AUS dollars for the last 'recession'!!!" Right? Am I missing something?

[PS90]

I wonder what the background of the respondents in this thread are.

Obviously I don't know you guys, but I'd wager that the posters who are pro-minimum-wage-increase are not small business owners.

[Andy Patrizio]

Originally Posted by Andy

...until crony idiot politicians artificially raise the minimum wage.




Tell that to Detroit.

Why do so many people hate math in this country?

Never let facts get in the way of a good emotional argument, and emotional appeal is part and parcel to how the left works.