Is it Time to Implode the Tacoma Dome? (Kent: 2014, property taxes)

[elkotronics]

Partially Tax payer expense upfront, paid back, with ticket sales, at the events once the arena opened.


I didn't know that about the Sodo stadium...it would be paid partially by the taxpayers upfront, then paid back with ticket sales once the arena opened. OK...paid back to the taxpayers in what way? By getting lowered ticket prices? I don't get it.

[DevanXL]

Originally Posted by CrazyDonkey

KeyArena is able to be profitable because most of its outstanding debt was paid off as part of the Sonics settlement. Even so, it might not continue to be profitable if a new Sodo arena steals away the headliner attractions. There's been discussions of downsizing the Key to make it more more amenable to attractions that are too small for a new Sodo arena, but too big for the Showbox.

If UPS were to go Div I, why wouldn't they just build a new on-campus arena? Memorial Fieldhouse dates back almost to WWII.

On Campus arena for a school with an enrollment of 3000? A remodel of the Field how would be good for Volleyball and girls basketball but If they were trying to grow a program to play in a large arena could benefit them. If Seattle U didn't happen to be in a city with the University of Washington they may have the same kind of success.



Lets say at first the lease is $25,000 a game. UPS plays 15-16 home games a Season. $400,000 to play in a Arena sounds like a profitable deal is you can manage to get 10,000 people per game.

Lets Try to figure this out, lets just say UPS does have a program that plays in a new arena. Lets add a WHL hockey team for good measure. Lets run through a list of potential events it can hold on a yearly basis:

UPS Home Games: 16 days
WHL Hockey: 20 days
High School State Basketball: 3-4 days
Music Concerts: 10-20 days
UW and WSU Winter Break Games: 4 days
NBA/NHL preseason games: 4-6 days
Special Shows (Walking with dinosours, etc): 15-25 days
Sporting championships (NCAA first round tourny games): 2-3 days
High School Graduations: 6-10 days(Many graduations are spaced apart)
Misc.: 5-10 days

An arena could host more events then I have proposed aswell. A new arena in an attractive downtown Tacoma has a strong possibility to host 80-100+ days worth on events a year and as the city grows it will only grow. Right now the current stand only has 20 events booked now through april. Showare center has more events booked just in November and December. Ofcourse many of the events are smaller scale but this still show that it is possible for Tacoma to be attractive.

[beenhereandthere]

Originally Posted by elkotronics

Partially Tax payer expense upfront, paid back, with ticket sales, at the events once the arena opened.


I didn't know that about the Sodo stadium...it would be paid partially by the taxpayers upfront, then paid back with ticket sales once the arena opened. OK...paid back to the taxpayers in what way? By getting lowered ticket prices? I don't get it.

Surcharge on top of the ticket price, like a user fee.

[CrazyDonkey]

Originally Posted by DevanXL

On Campus arena for a school with an enrollment of 3000? A remodel of the Field how would be good for Volleyball and girls basketball but If they were trying to grow a program to play in a large arena could benefit them. If Seattle U didn't happen to be in a city with the University of Washington they may have the same kind of success.

What kind of attendance are you talking about? Memorial Fieldhouse can hold up to 4,500 (up to 6,000 for concerts), but is antiquated - not what you want if you're looking to "grow a program." However, the same goes for expecting students to travel across town to a 3/4's empty arena that would need to be close to I-5. The Fieldhouse would need to be upgraded, but not expanded.

A new multi-purpose arena (10,000-15,000 capacity?) without a major tenant would still be a loser financially. If the Sodo arena is built, one plan is to downsize KeyArena to 5,000 capacity, since the new arena would steal most of the larger shows and events.

[DevanXL]

Originally Posted by CrazyDonkey

What kind of attendance are you talking about? Memorial Fieldhouse can hold up to 4,500 (up to 6,000 for concerts), but is antiquated - not what you want if you're looking to "grow a program." However, the same goes for expecting students to travel across town to a 3/4's empty arena that would need to be close to I-5. The Fieldhouse would need to be upgraded, but not expanded.

A new multi-purpose arena (10,000-15,000 capacity?) without a major tenant would still be a loser financially. If the Sodo arena is built, one plan is to downsize KeyArena to 5,000 capacity, since the new arena would steal most of the larger shows and events.

Im basing my inferences off off the success of the Everett Event center, Showare, and Mostly the Spokane Arena with has a capacity of 14,000. I'm not comparing it to Seattle arenas because those are on an entirely other level with initial cost (Cost probably 50% more in Seattle then Tacoma) and operating wise. Many artists book tacoma because it is a cheap venue. Tacoma could profit.

[Bimmerfanboy]

Originally Posted by beenhereandthere

The arena momentum seems to be worse ever since Murray got elected.

I'm pretty sure it has more to do with the fact that the Sacramento thing didn't work out. Looking around the league, I don't see any teams that could potentially move to Seattle. All of the unpopular teams with low attendance still have owners committed to those regions.

[CrazyDonkey]

Originally Posted by DevanXL

Im basing my inferences off off the success of the Everett Event center, Showare, and Mostly the Spokane Arena with has a capacity of 14,000. I'm not comparing it to Seattle arenas because those are on an entirely other level with initial cost (Cost probably 50% more in Seattle then Tacoma) and operating wise. Many artists book tacoma because it is a cheap venue. Tacoma could profit.

The Spokane Arena has no competition as a multi-purpose arena in its area. Gonzaga's arena hosts primarily GU athletic events.

The XFinity Arena (Everett Events Center) has 10,000 seats, while the Showare Center in Kent has 6,500 seats. The problem is that a new 14,000 seat arena would potentially face competition from up to three arenas in the Seattle and Kent areas: a Sodo Arena (17,500/hockey, 18,500/basketball, 19,000/concerts), the Showare Center (6,500), and a downsized KeyArena (5,000). Now an 8,000-10,000 arena might find a niche - attracting shows/events that are too small for a Sodo Arena (if or when it happens) and too big for the Showare Center. The question is whether it would be a big enough niche.

[DevanXL]

Originally Posted by CrazyDonkey

The Spokane Arena has no competition as a multi-purpose arena in its area. Gonzaga's arena hosts primarily GU athletic events.

The XFinity Arena (Everett Events Center) has 10,000 seats, while the Showare Center in Kent has 6,500 seats. The problem is that a new 14,000 seat arena would potentially face competition from up to three arenas in the Seattle and Kent areas: a Sodo Arena (17,500/hockey, 18,500/basketball, 19,000/concerts), the Showare Center (6,500), and a downsized KeyArena (5,000). Now an 8,000-10,000 arena might find a niche - attracting shows/events that are too small for a Sodo Arena (if or when it happens) and too big for the Showare Center. The question is whether it would be a big enough niche.

That's the thing not all arenas are in direct competition. A new Tacoma arena needs to have 14000-16000. Showare center gets b artists and small local events, sometimes a few notable events. Showare gets B to B+ artists. Tacoma arena at a good size and being in a populated area it getsB+ to A- to a few A artists. That's it's role. Sodo arena will always get the big hot artists because thy can charge $100 for a ticket. Major new arenas get peak artists. But Tacoma gets the secondary artists, the ones who may not have the same cult following but still are popular and relevant. A new arena adds more value and may get you 2 more A artists a year. But what it really does is help attract events like Disney on Ice, walk with dinosaurs, and other major events with update facilities. A major videogame competition could be a possibility. I read somwhere that it would cost $275 million to renovate and upgrade the dome to modern standards. Why not add $75 million to that effort and construct something great that will be longstanding for the city.

[CrazyDonkey]

Originally Posted by DevanXL

A new Tacoma arena needs to have 14000-16000.

That's where I'm not seeing your logic. A bigger arena can just mean bigger losses. Tacoma can't afford to plow money into a money pit. A more intimate arena in the range I mentioned could maximize the user experience (an important factor) and minimize losses due to competition (which can't be ignored).

[DevanXL]

Originally Posted by CrazyDonkey

That's where I'm not seeing your logic. A bigger arena can just mean bigger losses. Tacoma can't afford to plow money into a money pit. A more intimate arena in the range I mentioned could maximize the user experience (an important factor) and minimize losses due to competition (which can't be ignored).

WHat i'm not understanding is putting a 6,000-10,000 Seattle in arena in area with close to a million people (Pierce County and South King County cities). My argument is I think competition isn't as stiff as your making it out to be. Showare is only capable of hosting very modest events. Xfinity can hold medium events. A down sized key arena (which I will point out is just a rumor at this point, i've heard other rumors as well) would be no more useful then a concert house like showbox or WaMu Theater. A downsized Tacoma Arena would be no more beneficial then a Showare center. Arenas can be downscaled for smaller events. Close off the Top bleachers by curtaining it off (That's what the Key Arena currently does), open fewer concessions, bring less for that event, but You want a larger arena for next time Taylor swift goes on tour. Artists like her have relationships with the city of Tacoma and usually elect to play in there venue then a more expensive venue in Seattle. Seattle Has it's connections with the Billboard topping artists. When Justin Timberlake comes to the area you know he is playing in Seattle. Seattle get the Headliners while Tacoma still is attractive enough to get some big stars. At the end of the day of not sure how much money would actually be saved by reducing the size of the venue.