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Ruth, it is not a study, but I will tell you what someone who had owned two rental houses in PT said after he told us he sold both of them. Actually, his wife said it thus: "Rents aren't high enough." HUH? I said Whaddya Mean, rents are pretty high and still rising. She hemmed and hawed and then said, "The renters can't afford higher rents because their jobs are low-paying." OH! I said, "So you mean you can't RAISE THEIR RENT." I swear she looked around as if embarrassed to admit they wanted more money; how very un-PC. I told her that she could just say it in plain talk to me, that I wasn't going to lecture her on renting as charity. With taxes only going up, OF COURSE landlords will pass the costs down to the tenants. Especially since so many non-owners vote in every tax increase that is based on property ownership! They think it won't get passed down, however indirectly.
Some homeowners decided to rent to the more lucrative vacation crowd instead of local residents. They have the right to do that. Others just sold their houses, like the example above. They sold TWO rental houses and bought two in an area where they could actually cover their expenses from the rent money. How many others did the same? I don't blame them, given WA's tenant-favorable laws.
Thanks for this info. That doesn't explain why rents went up very suddenly, though; I'm sure taxes didn't take a huge hike, suddenly. Rents went up because rental stock suddenly disappeared, not because taxes went up. I was a LL for most of the time I was in Seattle. I didn't raise the rent, because when you get good renters, you want to keep them. Turnover is expensive; the LL misses at least one, often 2, months of rental income while advertising and interviewing to fill the vacancy. And sure, there's also maintenance and repair costs, but covering that should be built into the rental rate, more or less. I guess it depends on how much the mortgage is, on the rental properties, if any. I guess it just was no longer cost-effective for that couple, for whatever reason, but not due to taxes, I wouldn't think. Unless assessors have been going around raising the assessed value of people's homes in the area.
Oh well. Nice little community--charming, except for the pulp mill. Love the co-op! Nice library, too. Great waterfront, with the boating activities, and all.
I don't understand that rent. Why so high? Rent in Pt T is cheap, by comparison. Something's wrong with this picture.
Are you sure that rent is cheap(er) in Port Townsend now? A lot of new-builds are going up on the OP this summer. Contractors are backed-up with work; one guy told me that he is busier this summer than in years.
Are you sure that rent is cheap(er) in Port Townsend now? A lot of new-builds are going up on the OP this summer. Contractors are backed-up with work; one guy told me that he is busier this summer than in years.
Yes. $1200 for a 1-br. apt. is incomprehensible. In Pt T, they go for around $800-$900. $1100-$1250 will get you a 2-br. place.
Thanks for this info. That doesn't explain why rents went up very suddenly, though; I'm sure taxes didn't take a huge hike, suddenly. Rents went up because rental stock suddenly disappeared, not because taxes went up. I was a LL for most of the time I was in Seattle. I didn't raise the rent, because when you get good renters, you want to keep them. Turnover is expensive; the LL misses at least one, often 2, months of rental income while advertising and interviewing to fill the vacancy. And sure, there's also maintenance and repair costs, but covering that should be built into the rental rate, more or less. I guess it depends on how much the mortgage is, on the rental properties, if any. I guess it just was no longer cost-effective for that couple, for whatever reason, but not due to taxes, I wouldn't think. Unless assessors have been going around raising the assessed value of people's homes in the area.
Oh well. Nice little community--charming, except for the pulp mill. Love the co-op! Nice library, too. Great waterfront, with the boating activities, and all.
You got it backwards.
Rental stock dried up because taxes DID rise so much that landlords could not "build it into the rates", which is what happened to the couple I cited. Renters either could not or would not pay the increase, so the owners sold out rather than absorb it themselves, at no benefit to themselves. Meanwhile still having to absorb wear and tear and damage.
Tax assessments not only rose but increased in frequency from once every two years, to once a year. In Seattle, you could "build it into the rates" but not in PT where the job market isn't anything like Seattle's.
Also, rental stock was not big even during the mortgage-bust years. I needed to rent a place for a few months in fall and winter then. Almost all places wanted either a lease covering all the winter and early-spring months. They would charge higher rates to tourists on vacation in summer, then rent to longer term tenants during the slow season. Nothing unusual in any seasonally busy town. The cheapest NICE place I found thought that "only" $1000 a month for a tiny cottage with street parking was reasonable. I did not agree. But I found a cheaper place I could stand to live in for that period. It had a lot of problems, including safety violations. The tight rental market is not new at all.
A two-bedroom rental in PT is likely to be more than $1200.
Everybody in town knows that specific location makes a big difference.
I've been watching the rentals in and around PT T for years, pika. I haven't seen any 2-br. llistings that are significantly above $1250. Marcia was talking about a 1-br. apartment for $1200, in Port Angeles, where rents are usually lower than in Pt. T! I can't get my mind around that. 2-br. apartments in Pt T don't rent for above $1250, maybe $1300 max. There may be a spiffy home somewhere in town that's 2-br. for, say, $1400, but not apartments.
What happened roughly 3 years ago, then, to cause taxes to spike to the point that LL's had to sell their properties? Prior to that, there were scads of nice 3-br. homes in Pt. T, renting for around $1200. After the sudden influx of transplants from out of state (I was told the market got flooded with a lot of Californians escaping drought and northeasterners escaping harsh winters, in addition to the usual number of retirees coming in), rents jumped to where $1200 would only get you 2 br's, not 3, and rents have pretty much remained there, since then, but such rentals (homes) are very sparse, very rare. (And possibly the nicer ones (=more $$) only get listed locally, IDK.) I guess they either got converted to temporary vacation rentals, while others were sold off and taken off the rental market? But what caused the sudden spike in taxes?
And yeah, I've seen those shabby, 1-br. cottages with rents that are too high. Weird. Honestly, I've about given up on finding a rental there. When I was in town, I answered a couple of ads in the paper, and found a nice one at a good price, but the owners said they weren't even sure if the current tenant was going to stay, or not. They said the lease might get renewed for a year, so if I was still interested, I should stay in touch with them, and try again a year later. So it's an extremely tight rental market, and the good stuff only gets advertised in the local paper, it seems.
Last edited by Ruth4Truth; 07-28-2017 at 12:03 PM..
Well, I've seen ads for apartments that were well over $1200 a month. In the papers.
There just aren't many apartments in PT because developers did and do not consider it profitable to build them. This has been discussed many times locally. Some former apartment units got sold as condos.
I think you overestimate the effect of so-called drought escapees and blame out-of-staters too much. If they vanished, the town would not become more prosperous, regardless what wishful renters think.
Well, I've seen ads for apartments that were well over $1200 a month. In the papers.
There just aren't many apartments in PT because developers did and do not consider it profitable to build them. This has been discussed many times locally. Some former apartment units got sold as condos.
I think you overestimate the effect of so-called drought escapees and blame out-of-staters too much. If they vanished, the town would not become more prosperous, regardless what wishful renters think.
It's not me, that's what my local friends there told me. One of them knows a lot of owners of vacation studio rentals, and said that all those out-of-staters clogged up even the vacation rentals a few years ago, waiting for home rentals to open up. And surprisingly, some of the influx was young couples. I'm getting from this discussion with you that the situation is multi-faceted. I'm just trying to understand it. I had a moving van scheduled and ready to go, back 3 years ago or so, but suddenly the rentals vanished, so I'm trying to figure out what the heck happened. A sudden large jump in rents would conform with the scenario of a sudden huge increase in demand. I don't think there could be a tax hike that large, that would cause such a major increase in rents in just 6 months, or so.
Yes, I'm aware of the apartment shortage in Pt T. You'd think that apartment rent costs would have outpaced those in Pt Angeles then, if there were a severe shortage along with a big increase in people moving into the area. But in view of the rental situation, have there been any construction starts aimed at expanding the apartment rental market?
It's not me, that's what my local friends there told me. One of them knows a lot of owners of vacation studio rentals, and said that all those out-of-staters clogged up even the vacation rentals a few years ago, waiting for home rentals to open up. And surprisingly, some of the influx was young couples. I'm getting from this discussion with you that the situation is multi-faceted. I'm just trying to understand it. I had a moving van scheduled and ready to go, back 3 years ago or so, but suddenly the rentals vanished, so I'm trying to figure out what the heck happened. A sudden large jump in rents would conform with the scenario of a sudden huge increase in demand. I don't think there could be a tax hike that large, that would cause such a major increase in rents in just 6 months, or so.
Yes, I'm aware of the apartment shortage in Pt T. You'd think that apartment rent costs would have outpaced those in Pt Angeles then, if there were a severe shortage along with a big increase in people moving into the area. But in view of the rental situation, have there been any construction starts aimed at expanding the apartment rental market?
Well, some of the locals are anti-outsider anyway. The out-of-staters may have been "clogging up" rentals but apparently they paid the money on time, in full. That's important to a landlord.
I remember that three years ago the local economy had not recovered. BUT other cities out of state had been climbing out of the dumps, and some of their ex-residents decided to move after they could sell or rent their homes elsewhere. But 2014 wasn't the year that demand for homes to buy or places to rent went nuts. That started in 2015.
Rents (and purchase prices) can't outpace that of another city that has better employment opportunities, however slightly better.
Did you not read that one large housing complex in PT pulled back on the number of units it will build? In their words, the town cannot absorb that number of new units. That sounds like not enough demand--exactly the opposite of what you are claiming. In addition, someone who was going to create a tiny home village dropped out of sight. These are decisions made by businesses, people who would typically put much more thought into working the numbers than the masses dying to call it a housing emergency. When developers say demand, I bet they mean demand from people who can pay rent adequate to cover the costs of development and maintenance. The demand we keep hearing about, in contrast, is from those who can't or don't want to pay realistic rents.
BTW, some people can't get a rental because they insist that they be allowed to have pets, or they smoke. Some of them act as though landlords should be grateful that they want to rent from them, on their terms only. I guess they are trying reverse psychology. It doesn't work.
Well, some of the locals are anti-outsider anyway. The out-of-staters may have been "clogging up" rentals but apparently they paid the money on time, in full. That's important to a landlord.
I remember that three years ago the local economy had not recovered. BUT other cities out of state had been climbing out of the dumps, and some of their ex-residents decided to move after they could sell or rent their homes elsewhere. But 2014 wasn't the year that demand for homes to buy or places to rent went nuts. That started in 2015.
Rents (and purchase prices) can't outpace that of another city that has better employment opportunities, however slightly better.
Did you not read that one large housing complex in PT pulled back on the number of units it will build? In their words, the town cannot absorb that number of new units. That sounds like not enough demand--exactly the opposite of what you are claiming. In addition, someone who was going to create a tiny home village dropped out of sight. These are decisions made by businesses, people who would typically put much more thought into working the numbers than the masses dying to call it a housing emergency. When developers say demand, I bet they mean demand from people who can pay rent adequate to cover the costs of development and maintenance. The demand we keep hearing about, in contrast, is from those who can't or don't want to pay realistic rents.
BTW, some people can't get a rental because they insist that they be allowed to have pets, or they smoke. Some of them act as though landlords should be grateful that they want to rent from them, on their terms only. I guess they are trying reverse psychology. It doesn't work.
IDK, pika. Some of this kinda makes sense, but it kinda doesn't. Rents are going way up due to demand. But you're saying that builders/developers are saying there's not enough demand to justify more units. It sounds like the community needs an "affordable housing" development. That wouldn't explain the demand from the retirees who keep moving in, though.
It's still a mystery to me. Clearly, it's quite a complex phenom. And I don't recall exactly when it was that rentals suddenly vanished from Craigslist; it might have been spring 2015.
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