PSA: If you're thinking of moving to Bellingham, don't! (Seattle: rental, loan)

[Ruth4Truth]

Originally Posted by rkcarguy

Word is from my uncle, who was a timber estimator, that up across the border they don't clear the slash like they do in Washington. So all the dead branches and stuff are simply left when an area is logged and it turns into a giant tinder box. While the PNW does have it's fires, satellite view of the area showed most of the fires and smoke coming from them were from Canada. The last couple years have been really bad, the air made my GF's mom sick, and the sun looked like a dull copper penny one could stare at. We had ash falling in Bellingham from the Hope, BC fire.
Summer drying is an issue, we had some maples that were literally crispy dry and broke off in high winds, more so than ones that fell over and pulled up their roots from dry soil.

The UW School of Forestry has been teaching its students to NOT clear the slash, since sometime in the 1980's. I got a tour of a clear-cut on the Kitsap Peninsula by one of their graduates, who was very proud of the complete chaos left behind by the timber company. He said it leaves habitat for critters, nesting birds, and so on. It was such a load of BS, that I argued with him, and told him that's not at all what his program used to teach. He eventually backed down, and said they've changed what they teach, so leaving a mess is what they teach..

You can guess who started making major donations to that same forestry school, sometime in the 70's or 80's. An uncle of mine graduated from there, long before that, and he said they were taught to either cut in rows, more or less, or in patchwork-type patterns, otherwise the forest won't re-seed. Nowadays they lie to the students, and say the forest will naturally re-seed a clearcut, from around the edges. They leave big stumps, as well as a lot of branches and other debris. Lots of fuel for a fire.

There are plenty of areas all around Puget Sound that are like that: big clearcuts with all the slash left.

IDK, I think the B'ham area needs more rain, in order to avoid summer fires. IDK what you think; you live there. Has there been enough rain the last few years? I'm told "summer", the dry season, starts a month earlier than it used to. May is a dry, summer month now, friends in Seattle have told me.

[Diana Holbrook]

It is true that there was a push to leave the logging site "dirtier"... that cleanup may rob the land of some useful habitat, and nutrients for the ground. But I do wonder if that idea is losing its appeal now, along with the idea to let the roads go.... "roadless wilderness"... what a terrible idea when there's a fire.

Very few commercial logging operations leave the forest to just re-seed naturally. If they did that, the forest to grow up would be alder first, not fir. Timber lands are usually replanted within a year.

[Ruth4Truth]

Originally Posted by Diana Holbrook

It is true that there was a push to leave the logging site "dirtier"... that cleanup may rob the land of some useful habitat, and nutrients for the ground. But I do wonder if that idea is losing its appeal now, along with the idea to let the roads go.... "roadless wilderness"... what a terrible idea when there's a fire.

Very few commercial logging operations leave the forest to just re-seed naturally. If they did that, the forest to grow up would be alder first, not fir. Timber lands are usually replanted within a year.

You can see all the alder forests all over WA, though. You can tell those areas were logged of cedar, then just abandoned. But that may have been from a long-ago era. Maybe they do re-seed by hand these days. I'd have to see it to believe it. Do they clear the slash, first? Those old stumps would get in the way, if they didn't, I would think, but removing stumps would be expensive. Maybe they cut them down to ground level?

Thanks for posting. These are real concerns, now.

There's old Weyerhauser land on Orcas Island, that's all alder. The company turned it into a "nature preserve", seriously! What's there to preserve? They took the cedar forest. Most of the land on the island is alder. Friends of mine have property bordering the "preserve", that's still full of cedars. It's the last cedar forest on the island, that isn't in the state park. They're running a sustainable forestry operation on the property. It's been in the family since the 1920's. I worry about that property, too; a lightning storm could cause a fire there, or in the state park. I have no idea how the island would combat a fire.

[rkcarguy]

There has definitely been a warming and drying trend over the years, as a kid we could pretty much count on enough snow to cancel school for at least a few days and we got to sled down the hills in it. It would be around for a couple weeks at least. In colder winters lake Whatcom would freeze over enough so people could safely skate on it. Now, it seems like every winter is that warmer, wetter, El-nino winter.

Regarding timber, from what I have seen up on Sumas mountain for example, is they clear cut an area, and then the rest is bulldozed into piles and burned when it's not a fire danger. It's then re-planted.

[Ruth4Truth]

Originally Posted by rkcarguy

There has definitely been a warming and drying trend over the years, as a kid we could pretty much count on enough snow to cancel school for at least a few days and we got to sled down the hills in it. It would be around for a couple weeks at least. In colder winters lake Whatcom would freeze over enough so people could safely skate on it. Now, it seems like every winter is that warmer, wetter, El-nino winter.

Regarding timber, from what I have seen up on Sumas mountain for example, is they clear cut an area, and then the rest is bulldozed into piles and burned when it's not a fire danger. It's then re-planted.

Very interesting. Thank you!


Yeah, I heard June in Seattle used to have days when there were brief, warm rain showers. Then July would see the dry weather begin. That was back in the 60's, maybe 70's, and earlier. I don't think people have realized how much the climate has changed.

I was asking if there's still a good amount of moisture in the fall through winter and early spring, because a friend in Seattle said the news outlets have been reporting on drought conditions, the last couple of years. I thought winters were rainy, but the talk is about drought. That's scary, but I'm hoping it's exaggerated.

[Diana Holbrook]

Originally Posted by Ruth4Truth

You can see all the alder forests all over WA, though. You can tell those areas were logged of cedar, then just abandoned. But that may have been from a long-ago era.

Not commercial timber land. Someone just bought the land and took the trees. You won't see timber companies, or the state forests, do that.

Maybe they do re-seed by hand these days. I'd have to see it to believe it. Do they clear the slash, first? Those old stumps would get in the way, if they didn't, I would think, but removing stumps would be expensive. Maybe they cut them down to ground level?

Not only do they choose to replant (not seed, they actually plant little trees), they're required to, by statute, in order to continue getting the lower tax rates timber lands enjoy.

There's old Weyerhauser land on Orcas Island, that's all alder. The company turned it into a "nature preserve", seriously! What's there to preserve?

Hard to say... without knowing where it is....


IMHO, I think timber science is definitely still evolving. I am a huge supporter of sustainable timber production as our most important crop in this region, but perhaps this isn't the particular right thread for me to go off on a long tangent. .

[xboxmas]

This thread won't stop people from moving there or its continued growth, sorry.

[rkcarguy]

^^^I know it won't, and that's not even my intent. I see a lot of people move here for work that find themselves living paycheck to paycheck in an apartment they will never be able to save up enough to get out of and get a condo or home of their own. So if you are ok with that kind of lifestyle, or have $250K in cash to put down on your home purchase, come on in!

[Ruth4Truth]

Originally Posted by Diana Holbrook

Not commercial timber land. Someone just bought the land and took the trees. You won't see timber companies, or the state forests, do that.

Not only do they choose to replant (not seed, they actually plant little trees), they're required to, by statute, in order to continue getting the lower tax rates timber lands enjoy.

Hard to say... without knowing where it is....


IMHO, I think timber science is definitely still evolving. I am a huge supporter of sustainable timber production as our most important crop in this region, but perhaps this isn't the particular right thread for me to go off on a long tangent. .

Thank you again for sharing this. I just realized where I saw that horrible clear-cut, with all the slash left behind. It was on the Suquamish Reservation. Native land is usually exempt from state law, regulations, and environmental standards. (Some Rez's have stricter enviro laws than the state they're in does. Some opt to adopt state enviro standards.) So, it seems that someone took advantage of the fact that there was no requirement to clear the mess after logging, or to replant. This is an issue that should be taken up with the tribes, where this is occurring, especially in view of the heightened fire risk.

[xPlorer48]

Originally Posted by Ruth4Truth

@rkcarguy, I think you have valuable info to share, but it would really be helpful if you'd divide your long posts with spacing in-between the paragraphs. Just saying. I know you did paragraphs, but they still give the impression of a formidable wall of text. I'm interested in learning as much as possible about B'ham, so I'm truly interested in your posts. Just saying.

The issues of health-care delivery are very concerning. Especially in view of the fact that retirees are choosing B'ham, in part because of the hospital.. Clearly, another hospital is needed.

I'm surprised your doc quit in part because nursing support wasn't available. Some of the people moving into the area are nurses. More clinics are needed. Plenty of people in town would take medical staffing jobs, if they could get a little prior experience. Lots of people in B'ham need jobs.

Do any of the surrounding towns have a hospital? There's plenty of room for a 2nd hospital in town. Especially in the south of town, where there are old farmsteads that occasionally come up for sale. There's cheap land down there. (Shhhhh.....)

I live south of town and there are certainly no old farmsteads that are cheap. You may be thinking about Skagit County near Bow, Alger, Edison. In my neighborhood, 5 acre parcels go for $400,000. The south side of Bellingham is the more desirable area to live in because of less congestion. Housing is more expensive here, usually. Also, they are zoned rural residential or agriculture.