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Sad. There's only one Puget Sound but it seems to have been degraded by trains and planes.
Don’t overstate it. There are a few areas approaching ports where there are railroads near the water. And we have a couple military bases that have some aircraft and other noise periodically associated with them. And it has been so for the last 50 or more years.
People learn to live with them and some love them. And if you can’t, there are many many places on the Sound where you will never be bothered by those things.
This isn’t one of the problems I would worry about.
The real problem with military jet practice noise occurs when the military changes the number, frequency, operating hours, and jet types. Most people don’t mind occasional flights.
Several hours to an entire day (and NIGHT) of multiple jets doing the loudest kinds of practice would bother almost anybody.
The military might claim the new kinds of jets are less noisy than the previous generation of jets, yet both perceptions and decibel measurements reveal the lying. The military says they will do the practice on such-and-such a day during certain hours, to end supposedly by, say, 8 pm. And then a warzone blast wakes households up at midnight. More lying.
Yeah, it’s the sound of “freedom.” The military’s “freedom” to say whatever they feel like and not comply with either that, or in some cases, federal laws. The arrogant “freedom” to do whatever they want and *#!%§&?!^ everybody else who just wants the freedom to sleep or whatever without feeling like there is an undeclared war going on right there.
Most rural areas (and Camano is one) tend to be conservative, and the locals are very into the freedom to make whatever noise they want. The same goes with fireworks that sound like a war zone. The sound of freedom, they say.
Most rural areas (and Camano is one) tend to be conservative, and the locals are very into the freedom to make whatever noise they want. The same goes with fireworks that sound like a war zone. The sound of freedom, they say.
LOL. I remember you from a few months ago, on this same subject of jet noise.
Rural areas conservative? No. In NW WA, rural areas may be less liberal. I'll give you that.
Fireworks that sound like a 'war zone'? Fireworks are the sound of freedom?? Dems don't shoot off fireworks?
I'm challenging your hyperbole again. And I get you're anti-military. Fact is, protecting Puget Sound is crucial to our safety. The price is noise. I enjoy golfing, biking, and living under their flight paths. But it's not for everyone.
Those who didn't serve...
I hope the Navy never leaves Whidbey. I couldn't handle the tripling of RE prices and traffic, let alone decreased diversity.
Last edited by wolfdog; 06-20-2021 at 02:30 PM..
Reason: clarity
Don’t overstate it. There are a few areas approaching ports where there are railroads near the water. And we have a couple military bases that have some aircraft and other noise periodically associated with them. And it has been so for the last 50 or more years.
People learn to live with them and some love them. And if you can’t, there are many many places on the Sound where you will never be bothered by those things.
This isn’t one of the problems I would worry about.
I debated whether or not to respond to this but I just have to... I'm not trying to ruffle feathers but I think this needs to be talked about a lot more and not downplayed in any way. Here are some of my points:
1. I have studied the maps... the train tracks run right along the Puget Sound coast for most of the area from Canada down through Ballard in Seattle... yes, there are a few areas where the tracks move slightly inland, like around Birch Bay (but you have Cherry Point to worry about) and then straight through Mount Vernon, etc..... but mostly they runs right along the Puget Sound Coast, hugging that coastline in fact, certainly from Everett through Ballard in Seattle.... the Chuckanut coast, etc...
2. I have personally been to several of the parks along the Puget Sound coast.... the train is right there and VERY VERY VERY loud as it passes... and these trains are very long... there you are enjoying a sunset/interesting sky, walking a PNW rain forest trail, bird watching, whale watching, beach combing, looking across at the beautiful Olympic Mountains and islands and then these horrifically noisy trains come barreling through and it lasts a long while because they're long... that's like serving a person a platter of delicious seafood and farm fresh veggies and then throwing a big pile of putrid stinky trash on that lovely healthy meal... and that's not to mention the "invisible issues" like the air pollutants, water pollutants, health issues from noise pollution, etc...
3. These trains are dangerous.... most of them are carrying dangerous materials that could blow up... should there be an accident in any kind of population center, it could be really bad... lives lost kind of situation... mandatory evacuation... devastating property loss... air contamination for miles... these are literally disasters waiting to happen...
4. The worst part... it is getting much worse very fast.. they are planning on laying DOUBLE tracks... that's worth repeating... DOUBLE TRACKS... they are greatly increasing the coal trains... they are increasing the oil trains as well... these industries pour MILLIONS upon MILLIONS into local political races that most people don't pay as much attention to... races that would never get anywhere near hundreds of thousands, let alone millions, to make sure they have key people in power to do their bidding... they make enormous profit but at what expensive to the people who live there.. and even the people who visit... money... BIG MONEY... that's why it has happened in a nutshell and that's why they're getting away with increasing it even more... if I could link a graph, it's going up dramatically over a relatively short period of time while most people don't actually realize it. More people need to know about this.
5. Growler planes and Boeing planes, etc.... do they really have to do this in the Puget Sound... around natural areas that are publicly cherished... they can't practice somewhere else that maybe isn't as cherished a location? On top of this, they blatantly break the law... the military has a long history of this and it needs to end.... and they've already let us know this behavior is supposed to increase substantially... some of it's on a schedule but a lot of it is not.... I mean campers show up to take in nature on the islands and they can't even enjoy their respite? People who have chosen to live in a place with nature, perhaps at the sacrifice of other amenities, have to have that peace completely destroyed? Growl someone more isolated and less cherished please.... and how about not breaking the law... and how about being more respectful to the adjacent communities. How about allowing people the freedom to live peacefully and enjoy the limited areas we now have to enjoy nature.
6. Real estate values, local business economy, etc. Edmonds has already produced reports questioning how this will affect real estate values as well as safety, businesses, and much more. It's just common sense that if you lay double tracks and double, triple, quadruple, and actually way more the train traffic, this is going to be a major problem for quality of life, real estate, tourism, local businesses, etc.... long trains with 100+ cars carrying dangerous cargo is bad enough at the current levels but start increasing that and increasing it fast, it WILL affect all of the above very significantly.... coal trains evidently run slower so they will have even more impact on the ferry/emergency access/etc and they'll provide that sound/disturbance for longer periods and it's already something that doesn't pass quickly... there are tracks right by the ferry terminal loading area.... major concerns for safety there... there are tracks in almost all the coastal parks, there are train tracks running through the entire Edmonds waterfront and downtown area.... building new parks along some of the areas where the tracks are so close to the water would be very expensive... does anyone REALLY think massively increasing an already hugely ugly problem that extends for a very large stretch of the western Puget Sound coast is not going to affect real estate values? Not going to affect tourism dollars that these communities depend on? Not going to affect quality of life in general? Not going to affect safety? There were serious efforts to try figure out how to put the trains in trenches in Edmonds because city planners, local citizens, etc know it is already a major problem and it's going to get much worse... and yes, it affects emergency services like ambulances and police and fire.... people don't tend to think about that until someone dies or there is a major catastrophe... I've noted the tourist brochures and real estate ads, etc, downplay this... or worse, they actually try to romanticize the trains and even the planes, and maybe that works for some, maybe there are people out there that just love listening to trains roaring by day and night and planes growling low over head and shaking the ground but I seriously doubt most do/would... most people would prefer not to deal with that... especially the kind of people who might be drawn to the spectacular nature the coast/islands provides otherwise....
7. People DO move into these areas only to find after buying a home and actually experiencing the situation day in day out they either have to sell and leave for their own health and peace of mind or they have to live with a situation that is not healthy and they hadn't planned on... in some cases, because people actually downplayed the intensity of situation or they didn't realize or accept how it would grind them down.... and I have noted multiple reviews of parks, etc, on sites like Yelp often include people complaining about the trains and planes... and again, the current plan is to increase this problem dramatically. This is bad for the locals and all others who might like to experience the Puget Sound coast...
8. Washington state should have had the foresight to deal with this issue decades ago when it would have been much cheaper and easier to do so.... those tracks could have been decommissioned and converted into a world class nature path along the Puget Sound dotted with parks, viewpoints, etc... can you imagine how breathtaking and refreshing to the soul it would be to walk those tracks on the bluffs above the Puget Sound coast... even for the handicapped and older folks... to take a refreshing walk and just rest and enjoy it.. it could have been the crown jewel of the many communities along the coast and the entire state in fact..... but greed and vast amounts of money paid to politicians have not (so far) allowed that to happen... now in 2021 or beyond, decommissioning those tracks.... putting major limits on the number of trains... and planes.. etc... would be/will be a much more difficult challenge... but do I think it should still be done... most definitely... if living generations don't, I guarantee the later generations will... what a legacy to leave future generations!
9. Climate change is real.. and it is happening much faster than most people realize... even scientists actively studying this continue to underestimate by a long shot the speed at which this is happening... almost every report I read starts out by explaining it is happening much faster than earlier predicted... almost every report that comes out that climate change is happening much faster than they realized.... oil trains, coal trains are COMPLETELY incompatible with what needs to happen to address this problem in the very limited time we have to address it.... the sooner we replace these dirty, ugly, noise pollution/ air pollution/water pollution producing activities, the better.
10. No, I do not thing I am not overstating the problem. In fact, I don't believe these problems are bing talked about nearly enough. I doubt most people know just how much these trains and planes are planning to increase their activity. I seriously most people know the MILLIONS these industries have pour into the coffers of the local politicians allowing this to happen. What if this same amount of money was put into a real effort to decommission the the train tracks... more them for Amtrack, etc, but do away with the oil trains/coal trains/chemical trains... relocate the planes. Yes, I know this would requite a herculean effort and massive will to do it... but I think it should be done and will be done, if not now, but in the future.
11. Diana, you stated, "Don’t overstate it. There are a few areas approaching ports where there are railroads near the water. And we have a couple military bases that have some aircraft and other noise periodically associated with them." Where do you (and others) think this is not a problem from Ballard north to the Canadian border on the west side of Puget Sound and the adjacent islands..... every time I think I've found an exception, I find there's another major problem (growler planes for example).... and really I had hoped to buy in Edmonds or nearby and there is no place on this coastline without a train problem.
I debated whether or not to respond to this but I just have to... I'm not trying to ruffle feathers but I think this needs to be talked about a lot more and not downplayed in any way. Here are some of my points:
1. I have studied the maps... the train tracks run right along the Puget Sound coast for most of the area from Canada down through Ballard in Seattle... yes, there are a few areas where the tracks move slightly inland, like around Birch Bay (but you have Cherry Point to worry about) and then straight through Mount Vernon, etc..... but mostly they runs right along the Puget Sound Coast, hugging that coastline in fact, certainly from Everett through Ballard in Seattle.... the Chuckanut coast, etc...
OK I'm from the South Sound and so my perspective is different. There's a lot more to waterfront living and Puget Sound that is South of Seattle. But point well taken and I'm glad you said so
Quote:
5. Growler planes and Boeing planes, etc.... do they really have to do this in the Puget Sound... around natural areas that are publicly cherished... they can't practice somewhere else that maybe isn't as cherished a location?
Whidbey is not just a Nature area, it's a Naval Air Station. That means jets... with afterburners.
Quote:
How about allowing people the freedom to live peacefully and enjoy the limited areas we now have to enjoy nature.
I think you might find that every place is cherished by someone. As for why they have to be here... there's probably a reason. They're probably better to practice in this fairly populated area with large bodies of water and an ocean to fly over than they would be over truly natural areas. And I don't think anyone would want them over MORE populated areas.
Quote:
11. Diana, you stated, "Don’t overstate it. There are a few areas approaching ports where there are railroads near the water. And we have a couple military bases that have some aircraft and other noise periodically associated with them." Where do you (and others) think this is not a problem from Ballard north to the Canadian border on the west side of Puget Sound and the adjacent islands..... every time I think I've found an exception, I find there's another major problem (growler planes for example).... and really I had hoped to buy in Edmonds or nearby and there is no place on this coastline without a train problem.
Look and the South Sound. No trains (at least along the water), and no Growlers.
Thanks for correcting me on the North end. Seriously! I probably shouldn't have commented on this thread, but I wanted to speak up in defense of those who do defend "the sounds of freedom" around our military bases. I do hear the same thing down here about JBLM, and understand it.
Last edited by Diana Holbrook; 06-20-2021 at 05:43 PM..
OK I'm from the South Sound and so my perspective is different. There's a lot more to waterfront living and Puget Sound that is South of Seattle. But point well taken and I'm glad you said so
Whidbey is not just a Nature area, it's a Naval Air Station. That means jets... with afterburners.
I think you might find that every place is cherished by someone. As for why they have to be here... there's probably a reason. They're probably better to practice in this fairly populated area with large bodies of water and an ocean to fly over than they would be over truly natural areas. And I don't think anyone would want them over MORE populated areas.
Look and the South Sound. No trains (at least along the water), and no Growlers.
Thanks for correcting me on the North end. Seriously! I probably shouldn't have commented on this thread, but I wanted to speak up in defense of those who do defend "the sounds of freedom" around our military bases. I do hear the same thing down here about JBLM, and understand it.
Thanks for the response Diana.. I do respect what you said... it's been really frustrating for me because other than these train and plane issues, the area fits me well... I have noted that there are some beautiful parks south of Ballard along the water that do not have the train tracks but I had hoped to live north of Seattle or in north Seattle for other reasons.
I also very much dislike Big Money being poured into the coffers of local politicians who enable Big Industry to do things that cause great harm to many people.
I have also seen a pattern with the military... they never seem to respect the communities around them, nor are they located well, nor do they follow the law or keep their word... they seem to have major attitude that no matter what they do, people should simple suck it up....I've seen this pattern in several locations across the country and I wholehearted disagree with this attitude and I think something should be done about it at the federal level.
But again... I respect what you said.
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These are military areas. 
