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Old 11-10-2019, 03:33 PM
 
4,484 posts, read 9,267,288 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CarlB328 View Post
Wind turbines don't destroy the land, and they are often desert or scrub brush and near highways where no one would use the land anyway.

Animals use it. There are some birds and other animals that only live in those sorts of places.



I understand that not everyone cares about that, but what seems weird to me is that it's the "We're destroying the earth!" people who are also pushing wind energy, without giving a hoot about what they're destroying.
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Old 11-10-2019, 05:18 PM
 
Location: Pacific Northwest
438 posts, read 374,078 times
Reputation: 2106
Quote:
Originally Posted by sll3454 View Post
Animals use it. There are some birds and other animals that only live in those sorts of places.



I understand that not everyone cares about that, but what seems weird to me is that it's the "We're destroying the earth!" people who are also pushing wind energy, without giving a hoot about what they're destroying.
When we traveled to LA by train we passed several wind farms and such that were located in areas that would also have grazing cattle all over and/or the wind turbines were in the midst of large farms growing various crops surrounding them. While they do take up space, no one is stopping the general wildlife which seem to adapt and go about life once construction is finished and you can absolutely utilize the land around the turbines to make the maximune use and possible additional income to support the infrastructure.

While I agree windmills aren't as effective as they could be; remember that's what people said about solar energy not long ago. It takes time to adapt and learn how to best utilize new forms of energy; wind is still in the extremely early stages and the state/country has greatly ignored it to the point we've neglected the farms we do have and have halted innovation that can make the turbines worth it. Innovation is coming just as it did for other forms of energy that have become less impactful on the environment compared to several decades ago.
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Old 11-10-2019, 10:06 PM
 
Location: We_tside PNW (Columbia Gorge) / CO / SA TX / Thailand
34,660 posts, read 57,778,624 times
Reputation: 46126
Quote:
Originally Posted by musicfamly5 View Post
... It takes time to adapt and learn how to best utilize new forms of energy; wind is still in the extremely early stages and the state/country has greatly ignored it to the point we've neglected the farms we do have and have halted innovation that can make the turbines worth it. Innovation is coming just as it did for other forms of energy that have become less impactful on the environment compared to several decades ago.

1887: The first known wind turbine used to produce electricity is built in Scotland.

Our family has used wind for electricity for over 100 yrs.
wind power in America lasted from 1870 to 1930, when thousands of farmers used the wind to pump water and generate power.
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Old 11-11-2019, 09:43 AM
 
Location: Pacific Northwest
438 posts, read 374,078 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StealthRabbit View Post

1887: The first known wind turbine used to produce electricity is built in Scotland.

Our family has used wind for electricity for over 100 yrs.
wind power in America lasted from 1870 to 1930, when thousands of farmers used the wind to pump water and generate power.
Obviously it's been in use, wind turbines have been around since the 10-20 AD. But the modern equivalent that is being used to power massive amounts of modern needs (residential homes, businesses, public utilities) is still extremely new for the US as a whole. The first major wind turbine used for public utilities was in Vermont in 1941 and when it broke down 1,1000 hours later it was decommissioned.

It wasn't until the 1970s-1980s nuclear protests overseas that wind power came back into full view and for America we didn't see investment into it until the 90s. For the most part we're still in the early stages with the basic design and method of building wind turbines are still at that 1990s level (comparatively if we look at the wind powered turbines of the past we would see several different designs that only work on a small scale and are used primarily for farm use). The reason for being behind is thanks to the other energy methods having stronger lobbying groups; for them the interest in wind is in direct competition to their products so they do all they can to convince people that wind would be worthless despite other countries finding great success and simply innovations geared towards American needs could fix current inconveniences.

Other countries use wind turbines in a variety of ways and designs to maximize the use and space. Offshore turbines are popular in countries with coastlines as they don't take up space on land. Some designs place turbines on the top of streetlights along roadways and such. Most countries utilized a combination of methods and find great success with mixing it up in addition to solar and other less impactful methods of energy collection.

The main argument for wind turbines continues to soly be their perceived ugliness and this idea that they displace animals and kills birds. But many studies have shown animals don't get displaced if the proper steps are taken, they simply adapt around in among the sites. And for every 1 bird a turbine kills 500,000 more are killed from feral cats, planes, and buildings. And while they may look ugly, it would be nothing compared to the ecological destruction and mass amount of space needed (in addition to political drama) that comes with dams, nuclear power plants, coal or gas.

If anything the wind turbine farms are protecting land that could otherwise be wasted on destructive farming practices or bought up and developed into a suburban wasteland. The turbines do absolutely no harm and the massive amount of land preserved for them is attempts to save it for additions in the future and insurance the extra space will act as a safe and spacious area the animals that continue living in the area.

Last edited by musicfamly5; 11-11-2019 at 09:57 AM..
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Old 11-11-2019, 10:44 PM
 
Location: We_tside PNW (Columbia Gorge) / CO / SA TX / Thailand
34,660 posts, read 57,778,624 times
Reputation: 46126
The main argument for wind turbines continues to soly be their perceived ugliness and this idea that they displace animals and kills birds.

Sorry.. the MAIN argument is COSTS / efficiencies of WIND power production (from transmission lines to building and maintaining). Without 'subsidizes' we would not have placed the 1300+ towers in PNW during the last 15 yrs, it does not pencil out. Environmental impact has not changed, nor has 'bird strikes' delayed progress to date (nor 20 yrs ago, or 40 yrs ago in CG(Goodnoe Hills operational in 1980's- DOE project in WA)).
https://www.windpowermonthly.com/art...d-group-fights
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Old 11-21-2019, 11:19 AM
 
Location: Yakima, Wa
615 posts, read 1,073,321 times
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Oil is subsidized too, so once again your argument has no merit. It's obvious that your problem with turbines has nothing to do with facts.
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Old 11-21-2019, 01:53 PM
 
Location: WA
5,641 posts, read 24,904,544 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CarlB328 View Post
Oil is subsidized too, ....
How, by who?
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Old 11-21-2019, 02:27 PM
 
Location: We_tside PNW (Columbia Gorge) / CO / SA TX / Thailand
34,660 posts, read 57,778,624 times
Reputation: 46126
Quote:
Originally Posted by CarlB328 View Post
...your problem with turbines has nothing to do with facts.
I do work in the industry, and teach at a college that trains Wind Maint staff, and I'm a lifelong complex machine mechanic / toolmaker, so I do have a bit more than a slight clue about the mechanics and future maint issues of Wind Turbines, and I watched with awe when they tore down the previous US Energy PNW wind turbines and sold them for scrap. That left a 'memorable moment' of 'economic feasibility' of wind power.

Give it 10 - 20 yrs and we'll see what's left spinning. (and at what price). Do remember that foreign investors own much of the PNW USA wind infrastructure. There are more than a few things that can go wrong with that model of finance / LT ownership.

I'm in no hurry, I don't need wind or oil (since 1976).
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Old 11-22-2019, 06:40 AM
 
Location: Del Rio, TN
39,809 posts, read 26,399,685 times
Reputation: 25705
Quote:
Originally Posted by cdelena View Post
How, by who?
You don't really expect an answer do you? At best you'll get a cut and paste from a liberal website that spews a lot of hate and doesn't answer the question.
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Old 11-22-2019, 07:29 AM
 
Location: Yakima, Wa
615 posts, read 1,073,321 times
Reputation: 526
https://www.fuelfreedom.org/oil-company-subsidies/

Also wars and military actions to protect pipelines, the gulf ,etc. We still have soldiers in Syria just to protect an oil facility.
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