Fiery Republican challenges Inslee's Covid-19 response and asks for votes (Seattle: transfer, movies)

[sll3454]

Originally Posted by CarlB328

No thank you. And I thought they are starting to open things, at least the parks.

You can now fish, hike, and golf . . . Pacify the masses while you destroy their country.

[sll3454]

Originally Posted by Diana Holbrook

The very vulnerable should remain quarantined as best they can. But the fact of the matter is, the rest of us need to get out and probably catch it in order to establish any immunity to it. All we're doing now is hiding away and we're still vulnerable whenever we go out. We're not killing the virus.

We can stay quarantined forever, let everyone go bankrupt, stop production of everything we need, and become a third world country which will STILL get sick when we finally venture out. Who does that help?

It's not about wanting to kill or die or even be sick. It's a matter of facing the reality we have, and doing the best we can to get through it! This lockdown worked to "flatten the curve". Don't move the goal posts to "til no one will get sick".

We've done such a good job, the hospitals are going bankrupt and laying off workers. Do we want that to happen? Society costs money. People need to live. It's a mistake to categorize some people as essential and some as non essential. Everyone's income is essential. Our work is where the money comes from to pay for all this, INCLUDING all the aid going out the door, and including the cure for this virus.


That's not a Democrat or Republican argument. It's not a Democrat or Republican virus. It is common sense.

Yes. Good post. I can't rep you because you've had too many good posts.

[sll3454]

Originally Posted by phlinak

Q: What's the difference between what I proposed and the trillion dollar tax refund to the rich and the first coronavirus "stimulus package that almost exclusively benefitted large corporations?


A: What I proposed would actually help working/middle class people, state/local government, AND businesses.

Any "stimulus package" that will necessitates printing excess money will lead to the kind of inflation that makes money worthless. Why was gold historically used as money? Why not use sand? Because sand is everywhere. Printing more and more money is like using sand as currency.

[Diana Holbrook]

Originally Posted by phlinak

This is nonsense.

There is no evidence that we can develop "immunity" to this virus.

In fact, there is mounting evidence that many people who get this virus have started showing signs of being re-infected, so this novel virus may act more like shingles or certain STDs.

Prudence dictates we should continue to practice isolation and social distancing until the medical/scientific community has a better certainty of exactly how this virus spreads and how it affects the immunity system.

If necessary, Congress implement as many economic stimulus packages as needed to keep the economy afloat and the help should go to individuals, state/local government, and businesses, in that order.

IF it's true that the virus behaves that way, then it would be VERY unusual, and it would be likely we'll be living with it for a very long time, so it's even more vital we figure out how to get out and live our lives in spite of it, isn't it?

We can't simply shut down and keep paying people to not work. People are not just losing jobs. They're losing their life's work. This is destroying people, the longer it goes, the more will be lost.

The country needs to produce food and supplies and income for its people. The people need to grow up, become schooled, find careers and loves, raise children, visit with each other, engage in hobbies. LIVE. Not just lock down in isolation. We can't maintain emergency mode indefinitely.

We've had illnesses around before. We've never behaved like this for one, let alone one which the vast majority of people will recover from with most never even knowing they've had it. Which is it, really? Public health emergency? Or invisible illness with no symptoms?

The media and information overload is turning us into corona-phobes and the information is becoming more conflicting and polarizing longer this goes on. I get it! It has changed how we feel about public places. But we can't just keep ignoring that NONE of the models are proving accurate, yet keep living by them without question. We had fear of overwhelmed hospitals. The fact is the hospitals are empty and going bankrupt. Yay, right? Evidently no. We're supposed to keep shut in because of what the models NOW say might happen. We can't keep doing this. This is not a sustainable way to live.

[Diana Holbrook]

Originally Posted by sll3454

Yes. Good post. I can't rep you because you've had too many good posts.

Thanks. It's a tough subject, and I know good people are on all sides of it... I don't fault anyone for coming to other conclusions, but we need to try to work together on some kind of new plan going forward.

[CrazyDonkey]

Originally Posted by Diana Holbrook

The very vulnerable should remain quarantined as best they can. But the fact of the matter is, the rest of us need to get out and probably catch it in order to establish any immunity to it. All we're doing now is hiding away and we're still vulnerable whenever we go out. We're not killing the virus.

To open up, we need:

1) On-demand testing, with results within 24 hours, of the symptomatic, contacts, medical personnel, first responders, essential/service workers, school students/staff.

and

2) Effective therapuetics, so that an infection isn't a probable death sentence for many of the vulnerable.

or

3) Effective vaccines to prevent the infection (not likely until 2021).

Dropping the ball on testing is entirely on the Trump Administration.

[phlinak]

Originally Posted by sll3454

Any "stimulus package" that will necessitates printing excess money will lead to the kind of inflation that makes money worthless. Why was gold historically used as money? Why not use sand? Because sand is everywhere. Printing more and more money is like using sand as currency.

Money has not been backed by gold in at 50 years.

All US currency is backed by the full faith and credit of the United States government and nothing else, pretty much like every other country.

So, unless the US government totally collapses (and the rest of the world governments with it), fire up the printing press.

[Diana Holbrook]

Originally Posted by CrazyDonkey

To open up, we need:

1) On-demand testing, with results within 24 hours, of the symptomatic, contacts, medical personnel, first responders, essential/service workers, school students/staff.

I'm not a big believer in it as a prevention tool but I think there is testing available now.

2) Effective therapeutics, so that an infection isn't a probable death sentence for many of the vulnerable.

or

3) Effective vaccines to prevent the infection (not likely until 2021).

Dropping the ball on testing is entirely on the Trump Administration.

I think therapeutics too, is improving. More seriously ill people are surviving, they're learning more every day, and most people who get it don't even need to see a doctor.

I don't see how people think Trump dropped the ball on testing. There can be no stockpile of tests for a virus that we'd never seen before January. These things need to be developed. Early tests were slow and unreliable, they had to be improved, and production had to be created out of thin air.

Trump has a lot of personal flaws, but I don't see anyone OTHER than Trump doing any better than he did in getting production ramped up on all the stuff that was suddenly needed here. (Or not needed, as it turned out). Still... I don't see Clinton or Biden having any good ideas and business sense and contacts in their rolodex to get actual production of tests, or PPE, or ventilators, or any of that ramped up any quicker... do you? Seriously? I don't think they'd have known the first step, if the first step isn't to be a critic.

Everyone is freaked out about this thing, and after seeing where many get their news and all the constant fear mongering and blaming that happens there, I understand why they're freaked out... but that doesn't make them right. I don't think it's a practical to keep us closed down indefinitely hoping for a cure and a vaccine and a guarantee no one gets sick. That's not why they said we needed to shut down. It's real easy for some to say let's wait, when it's not their lives and fortunes being lost because of fear. - not because of the disease... Because there's very few in my area who even have the disease or ever did... the fear of the disease.

[SusVelo]

Originally Posted by Diana Holbrook

I'm not a big believer in it as a prevention tool but I think there is testing available now.


I think therapeutics too, is improving. More seriously ill people are surviving, they're learning more every day, and most people who get it don't even need to see a doctor.

I don't see how people think Trump dropped the ball on testing. There can be no stockpile of tests for a virus that we'd never seen before January. These things need to be developed. Early tests were slow and unreliable, they had to be improved, and production had to be created out of thin air.

Trump has a lot of personal flaws, but I don't see anyone OTHER than Trump doing any better than he did in getting production ramped up on all the stuff that was suddenly needed here. (Or not needed, as it turned out). Still... I don't see Clinton or Biden having any good ideas and business sense and contacts in their rolodex to get actual production of tests, or PPE, or ventilators, or any of that ramped up any quicker... do you? Seriously? I don't think they'd have known the first step, if the first step isn't to be a critic.

Everyone is freaked out about this thing, and after seeing where many get their news and all the constant fear mongering and blaming that happens there, I understand why they're freaked out... but that doesn't make them right. I don't think it's a practical to keep us closed down indefinitely hoping for a cure and a vaccine and a guarantee no one gets sick. That's not why they said we needed to shut down. It's real easy for some to say let's wait, when it's not their lives and fortunes being lost because of fear. - not because of the disease... Because there's very few in my area who even have the disease or ever did... the fear of the disease.

Lol Clinton and Biden are not president. We bought 2 months and the white house wasted it by attacking journalists, removing ig, and intercepting shipments. The DPA can't be done by a private citizen like Clinton or Biden, good grief. His handling of this had been abysmal. Trump can't even try to bring everyone together or console victims.
You may not like Clinton, but she was effective and a policy wonk. Compared to a narcissistic grifter who can't just let the experts do their thing. He's completely out of his league trying to understand this.

[mysticaltyger]

Originally Posted by flyingsaucermom

I'm a life-long Democrat, but I'm willing to hold my nose through the Constitution rhetoric. His point about changing the goal post away from "flattening the curve" is spot on.

Democrats like Robert Kennedy Jr. are also saying that lockdowns, in and of themselves, also kill people through not seeking medical care, depression due to isolation, more suicides & imprisonment due to increased unemployment, starting at 44:55.

The whole interview is worth listening to:



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QLi6ZrFp6vQ&t=3009s