Hope you are ready for a heatwave (Sammamish, Issaquah: 2014, heat pump)

[509]

Originally Posted by MtnSurfer

Regardless of your politics or favorite spin is on climate change, most cannot deny things are changing during their lifetimes. This includes increased heatwaves and fire seasons here in the PNW. More people will be affected by heat stroke, loss of personal property, fire smoke related breathing problems, etc...

Whether you want to believe it's just a cyclical change over billions of years matter not to the current human race. When you're living through change and retort its really nothing new in the grand scheme of things, I think the point is lost on reality folks are experiencing worldwide - an inconvenient truth. Of course many will go to their graves denying climate change as things continue to change all around them. Humans are funny that way. lol

In break with Trump, House GOP forms group on climate change

Climate change: World's glaciers melting at a faster pace

Derek

Your missing the point.


Man-caused climate change.....list what we as a society need to do to be ready for it.


Natural-caused climate change....list what we as a society need to do to be ready for it.


THOSE are TWO completely different lists.


The Democrats are down with list ONE, except when it comes to 55 MPH and restrictions on jet travel. Can you name me ONE, just ONE man-caused climate change program that does not have the expenditure of tax dollars to benefit corporate interests??



The Democrats don't want to do anything with list TWO. No dams, no seawalls, no expanded irrigation systems for farming, no harvesting of trees to reduce fire hazard, etc. etc.



Follow the money. Joe Biden, Jay Inslee and a host of others don't believe in man-caused climate change since they refuse to implement NO COST TO TAXPAYERS programs on climate change.

[Igor Blevin]

Originally Posted by happygrrrl

If anyone had any doubt about human-caused climate change, this should convince them. It's happening so fast...really concerning.

Nope, this doesn't convince me.

In fact, I am strongly coming to wonder if climate change is not due to the onset of a magnetic polar reversal.

The north pole is simply racing toward Siberia, a place it hasn't been to in 2000 years. What do you think that would do to global climate? That has to have some impact on air and ocean currents?



https://strangesounds.org/2019/01/ea...-know-why.html


Meanwhile, earth's magnetic field is weaking, which is letting in more solar radiation. That sounds like something that would impact climate, doncha think?

The Earth's magnetic field is weakening and scientists don't know why

Data collected by the European Space Agency (ESA) and published in May notes that the affected area, known as the South Atlantic Anomaly, has seen the magnetic force weaken by nearly 9 per cent over the last 200 years.

There is a lot of speculation about this phenomenon is happening, but according to York University astronomy and physics professor Paul Delaney, the anomaly could be caused by a regular reversal of Earth’s magnetic field.

"If you go back through the geologic record you can actually map out the U.S. magnetic field as a function of time really easily. We know that the Poles, our North and South Poles magnetically flip every, on average, 500,000 years," Delaney explained to CTV's Your Morning on Tuesday.

https://www.ctvnews.ca/sci-tech/the-...-why-1.4986480


You assume man is responsible. I don't.

I don't know the cause of climate change, but we are sure seeing huge geo-magnetic changes that involve forces far, far greater than our collective nuclear arsenals. I am given to wonder if those massive natural forces are the cause. In which case, all we can do is adapt.

[MtnSurfer]

Originally Posted by 509

Your missing the point.

Man-caused climate change.....list what we as a society need to do to be ready for it.

Natural-caused climate change....list what we as a society need to do to be ready for it.
...

Follow the money. Joe Biden, Jay Inslee and a host of others don't believe in man-caused climate change since they refuse to implement NO COST TO TAXPAYERS programs on climate change.

I think we're talking about two different things entirely - politics vs. what's actually happening to the world. However, you've stated Climate Change in both of these scenarios above. So, at least there an understanding SOMETHING is changing related to our world's climate regardless of talking head politicians including their latest spin or how they spend money vs. not. So we agree on something. It's not all a big farce or another conspiracy drummed up by the Chinese to steal American jobs. lol

Failures from the right and left wings are long in many areas affecting our nation from Covid to climate change to you name it! But that still doesn't change what's happening right now. It just spins the dialogue regarding who's doing what - a tit for tat, he said, she said or did. I won't get into the ineptness of past and present politicians because that list is extremely looooong on both sides of the aisle and not the point of this thread.

But I do want to address one thing. It appears there may be a shifting going on from flat out denial of climate change to this second way of discussing it which takes man completely out of the equation in terms of causation. Pollution or other greenhouse effects such as releasing carbon dioxide and other greenhouse gases are still not applicable since its simply naturally occurring. So, there is no need to work toward lowering pollution levels because it doesn't matter as Igor suggests above. That's an interesting take on it.

Derek

[flyingsaucermom]

Originally Posted by MtnSurfer

But I do want to address one thing. It appears there may be a shifting going on from flat out denial of climate change to this second way of discussing it which takes man completely out of the equation in terms of causation. Pollution or other greenhouse effects such as releasing carbon dioxide and other greenhouse gases are still not applicable since its simply naturally occurring. So, there is no need to work toward lowering pollution levels because it doesn't matter as Igor suggests above. That's an interesting take on it.

Derek

Bingo.

And so for us "believers" everything begins to appear fatalistic as we "believe" that the human-caused life-destroying physical and chemical processes associated to climate change will continue, unabated, if don't collectively and dramatically alter human behaviors. I'm already there myself... I no longer believe we will ever have enough buy-in by means of persuasion. Time WILL run out to maintain the current geopolitical and social institutions if we wait for the change of heart.

But... to tie it back into the other great subject on the Seattle board... I'm personally not convinced we are all still waiting. I've been pretty bold and transparent about the idea of the pandemic serving as a "shock therapy" for something else. I'm not the only one who's done this BTW. Dori Munson proposed his own theory except he's a bit of a denier himself so his theory is purely political: China let it go intentionally to destroy the US.

I, on the other hand, have taken the "12 Monkeys" (1995, Terri Gilliam) view... You guys remember that film? It's a time travel movie where Bruce Willis is sent back in time to find out how an extremely lethal pandemic began and to see if he can stop it. The original belief in the future was that there was an "Army of the 12 Monkeys" that caused the pandemic but Willis shows us at the end that it was (mostly) at the hands of one deranged son of some bio/pharmaceutical corporation CEO/lead scientist that developed the experimental virus and his father's assistant that believe humanity needs to die in order to save the environment. The film ends with the assistant, who took a briefcase of vials, beginning to disperse the contents of the vials on a series of international flights.

It's a really sobering film. Unsettling (it is a Gilliam film after all!).

In any case... the idea of a single or a couple blokes starting a world-wide population massacre to save the planet has already been well considered...

If what science and observation is telling us is true, that we are destroying our sustainability, and given the context of the impossibility of consensus, then you tell me that it couldn't actually be done?

[happygrrrl]

93F at 6:00 p.m. at my place on OP.

[notnamed]

If pushing renewable energy in an effort to fight climate change is fraudulent, we still end up with cleaner air and water. Not to mention reduced cancer rates and eliminate foreign oil dependency and all the mess associated with that. Our local supply would cover the other industrial uses of oil easily.

I would certainly want all that regardless.

[MtnSurfer]

Originally Posted by notnamed

If pushing renewable energy in an effort to fight climate change is fraudulent, we still end up with cleaner air and water. Not to mention reduced cancer rates and eliminate foreign oil dependency and all the mess associated with that. Our local supply would cover the other industrial uses of oil easily.

I would certainly want all that regardless.

Yes, and while I don't agree with the 'farce' premise regarding humans' role, I definitely agree that we benefit regardless in being better stewards of our planet from reducing the pollutants to our air, oceans, rivers, lakes and our lands.

Growing up in LA, there was a period of terrible air pollution where it became difficult to breath. With millions of cars spewing pollution into the air daily, it was not only very visible but obvious to anyone who went outside and breathed. So, after years of stricter emission controls, the air quality improved. It's still way too crowded and crazy down there. But no one complains anymore about reducing emissions. Though there were lots of complainers and deniers initially questioning the 'science' as fake or politically driven. Big oil hated it with lots of lobbyists and $$ battling the changes. But eventually they even came around... mostly. They accepted that change was inevitable including reduction of fossil fuel emissions and power. Now, they are actively exploring alternative clean energy sources and making good progress.

As a nation, we need to rise above political posturing and agendas to address real problems we face. But like flyingsaucermom, I'm not as convinced a consensus can ever really be achieved. Yet maybe a majority at times can move us in the right direction even if backwards at other times - just not one step forward two steps back.

Derek

[CrazyDonkey]

Originally Posted by 509

Yep, I was taught that in 8th grade.


However, current C02 emissions are up 120 parts per million since 1900 or so.

You obviously weren't paying attention...

From a reputable source:

CO2 Emissions per year (billions of metric tons):

1900: 1.95
1920: 3.52
1950: 5.89
1970: 14.83
1990: 22.7
2010: 33.13
2019: 36.44
2020: 34.07

That's an increase of 16.37 billion metric tons/year from 1990 to 2019, or an increase of 72%!

See the dip of 2.37 billion metric tons for 2020? That was Covid! That was 100% caused by the pandemic shutting down the global economy and puts to a lie any claim that it is just due to natural cycles and there is nothing we can do about it.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/...co2-emissions/

Cite just one reputable source for the swill you're dishing out. (An entirely pointless request.)

[MechAndy]

I am not really informed or knowledgeable enough to make a proper decision on climate change.
That bing said I used to work in Downey in the early 80’s.
Being a NorCal guy I didn’t really know the area well.
I worked there 3 days long days a week to get my 40 hours and 7 days per diem in.
I did this for a few years.
Several years later I went down there and noticed that there were mountains that were not visible to me years before.
I do believe that we made a change there.

That’s all I got.

Andy.

[rantiquity]

Originally Posted by happygrrrl

If anyone had any doubt about human-caused climate change, this should convince them. It's happening so fast...really concerning.

Interesting...but here in Sequim according to the local paper yesterday's high temp was 89. Warm yes, but hardly a heat wave caused by climate change.