The Vaccine doesn't stop the spread of Covid/Delta (Seattle: live, dangerous)

[rkcarguy]

All I posted is based on the experience my family had with Covid, relative to their vax status. Some real world numbers for a "sample size" of about 50 people. This isn't about "me", some of you need to wake up!
It's a real double edged sword in so many ways. 2 of us had both shots and the booster shot, tested positive and had zero to minor symptoms. Due to this, these members of our family passed it onto many of us before they knew they had it. Two of my cousins have big extended families with completely opposite views on the vax, both families got Covid anyway. Both of their husbands ended up having breathing difficulties and were hospitalized but got through ok. Symptoms for the rest varied from "meh" for the younger kids to flu like for the teens and adults. Length of sickness was only a few days for some of the kids to 3-weeks for those hospitalized.

I'm actually very cautious, but the general public is clueless. I watch people cough and cover their mouth with their hand while in line at the gas pumps or grocery store, then touch all the same buttons on the card machine and pump handles a few minutes apart without any gloves or sanitizer. So many surfaces that everyone touches in rapid succession and they don't even think about it. Then, many want to step on everyone's necks and force their mandates.

[rantiquity]

Originally Posted by rkcarguy

Simple, experienced based (among family) observation here. Several of us have now joined the "breakthrough" ranks.

"The vaccinated readily contract and pass on the delta variant, yet experience symptoms more in line with a common cold or seasonal allergies".

1. The vaccines do work in eliminating or reducing the symptoms of the vaccinated when they contract the delta variant. Most of my family got the vax and they were ok.

2. The vaccines currently DO NOT WORK in preventing the spread of the delta variant. There is no point in a mandate when it doesn't stop the spread of the virus. One family member opted not to vax due to high risk of clotting. While they had a tougher time with delta, it was better than having a stroke or a pulmonary embolism (blood clot in lung).

My grandson is in the Navy and all of the people on his base had prior mandatory vaccines.
Yesterday the base was put on lock down when several Covid cases were found among base vaccinated personnel. He was sent home for about 10 days. Before he left base he went to the base hospital and got a mandatory test again. Negative.
In my county several people who got the vaccine has died but mostly very old with underlaying conditions.
Personally I got the full vaccine way back in Feb/Mar and got tested in early Sept and tested positive because I was suffering from diarrhea and other symptoms. It took about a month to got over it.
I agree with this poster....the vaccine isn't as advertised but I would still recommend the vaccine because most of the time the symptoms are mild. Most of the time.

[PS90]

Originally Posted by rantiquity

I agree with this poster....the vaccine isn't as advertised but I would still recommend the vaccine because most of the time the symptoms are mild. Most of the time.

I completely agree with you.

I think that the vaccine has been exaggerated by both sides:

I think that the potential side-effects touted by the vaccine-hesitant are overblown, because those potential side-effects are actually astronomically rare. And the vaccines are not "unproven" - the mRNA technology has been around for at least 2 decades.

On the other hand, I think that the pro-vaccine, pro-mandate crowd is vastly OVER-stating the effectiveness and importance of these vaccines. Everyone from posters on this forum to Joe Biden blame the unvaccinated for the continuation of the pandemic. Yet the Delta variant emerged in India (not unvaccinated Americans' fault), and vaccinated people can still, apparently, get sick and spread the virus - if that's true, then you can't blame the unvaccinated solely for this pandemic continuing.

[Arcos]

After many arguments on this forum, I alternate between exasperation and cutting people a break. We’re all tired of this disease and its effects, so I try to cut people slack.

But there’s also no doubt that those who aren’t getting vaccinated are prolonging the severity of the disease. It has been proven about 5000 times over, in every country with vaccinations available.

It’s also been proven that the disease mutates and also our immune system doesn’t retain high levels of immunity from the vaccines for more than 6 months. Hence breakthroughs. Boosters help with that. Masks do as well (and we all pretty much don’t like or hate them, but they are helpful).

After that, it’s up to our individual tolerances and also the level of difficulty we have to deal with. Those with kids will likely be more burnt out. Those with aged relatives may be more willing to fight on. I’m generalizing.

Do your best to do your best. Try to avoid the conspiracy theories. And remember to cut people some slack. No one asked for this.

[Country Roads]

Don't buy into the covid BS. They're not gonna stop the lockdowns and mandates unless we make them.

[PS90]

Originally Posted by Country Roads

Don't buy into the covid BS. They're not gonna stop the lockdowns and mandates unless we make them.

I actually agree with you here. I try very hard to not be a conspiracy theorist, but when Inslee is STILL making unilateral decisions without the state legislature, under the guise of an "Emergency Declaration" that's been going on for almost 2 years, it's gets hard not to believe something unscrupulous is going on...

[flyingsaucermom]

Originally Posted by PS90

I actually agree with you here. I try very hard to not be a conspiracy theorist, but when Inslee is STILL making unilateral decisions without the state legislature, under the guise of an "Emergency Declaration" that's been going on for almost 2 years, it's gets hard not to believe something unscrupulous is going on...

It would be different if most or even just many states were still at high alarm but this is not nearly the case. WA is an outlier with the entire country. Even the liberal states. He’s on his own still reacting like it’s Day 1 in month 23. He fired good, honest workers and it will come back to haunt him.

[MechAndy]

Catching covid because you did something stupid is absurd.
I like many others caught it at work trying to keep the bills paid.
Yup silly me.

Not being able to have my voice heard on this 2 year long “emergency” situation doesn’t sit well with me.
It may for people that need to be lead but I’m not made that way.

So this vaccine will stop the spread of it huh?

[sll3454]

Originally Posted by Arcos

But there’s also no doubt that those who aren’t getting vaccinated are prolonging the severity of the disease. It has been proven about 5000 times over, in every country with vaccinations available.
What do you mean by "prolonging the severity"? Do you mean on an individual level, that a vaccinated person will have less severe symptoms than an unvaccinated person? Or are you saying that the unvaccinated people are "driving the spread"? If so, why is it that countries with high vaccination rates see spikes in infections?



When you introduce a leaky vaccine while a virus is spreading, you get vaccine-resistant variants. (Hello, Delta.) Vaccinating the most at-risk people and stopping there would have been a good strategy. Vaccinating people at low risk was a very poor strategy.



It’s also been proven that the disease mutates and also our immune system doesn’t retain high levels of immunity from the vaccines for more than 6 months. Hence breakthroughs. Boosters help with that. Masks do as well (and we all pretty much don’t like or hate them, but they are helpful). Yes, it mutates. It mutates in a way that enables it to keep spreading. (Thus we have Delta, and will have more variants, and more boosters, followed by more variants.)



The part of the virus that mutates the most is the spike. The only part of the virus addressed by the vaccines is the spike. A little variation of the spike, and . . . the vaccine is no longer effective. However, natural immunity addresses the entire virus. The unvaccinated who have recovered from covid have natural immunity that includes defenses against the N-protein, while those whose protection comes from the vaccine have defenses only against the S-protein. That is part of the reason that natural immunity is more comprehensive than vaccine immunity.



This is why vaccinating the general population is bad public policy. We should have protected the at-risk, and allowed healthy people to develop their own immunity.




After that, it’s up to our individual tolerances and also the level of difficulty we have to deal with. Those with kids will likely be more burnt out. Those with aged relatives may be more willing to fight on. I’m generalizing.

Do your best to do your best. Try to avoid the conspiracy theories. And remember to cut people some slack. No one asked for this.

My comments are in red.

[Ruth4Truth]

Originally Posted by Arcos

What’s the percentage likelihood of catching Covid if vaccinated versus not vaccinated? How does it change based on time since vaxxed?

What is your definition of ‘work’ versus not work? Do you have a percentage in mind?

What’s the Ro in an unvaxxed population versus a vaxxed population? The death rate? The strain on resources? The number of health care workers who resign due to burnout and abuse?

Why is there no point in a mandate if it doesn’t prevent the spread. Aren’t there other benefits?

What about boosters. If vaccination plus boosters every six months to a year prevented the spread to your level of comfort, is that justification for a mandate (or a strong incentive, like no longer covering the cost of care if you get sick, and charging an insurance surcharge to the undervaccinated)?

What’s the percentage likelihood of clotting from the vaccine versus from Covid?

Part of the point in everyone getting vaxxed during a pandemic, is to stop the virus from spreading, and mutating in the process into a more deadly form. That's what the mandate is about. That's why people in the Seattle area (I hear from an unvaxxed friend) are so angry at unvaxxed people. Because the unvaxxed still present a target for the virus, that will allow it to evolve into new variants.

OP, I hadn't heard there was a heightened risk of clotting with the vaccines. Is that with all of them, or just the Moderna and Pfizer ones?