Climate Battle: Newcastle, Aus vs Charleston, SC (snowfall, averages, Chicago)
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
It's interesting to read the travel blogs of Europeans that tour around places like Texas and the deep south in the winter. As per usual every winter the arctic blasts regularly hit the deep south and they are stunned. I'll bet places like Rome and Barcelona do not get hit with the arctic cold that hits the US South each winter. They just cannot believe places at such low latitude can get so cold, and for what can last for days. In most of the blogs I read it seems they don't consider it sub-tropical after spending some time there in winter.
I don't want to labour the point too much but yes, most English with no particular interest in weather or the US have a vague idea that places like New York and Chicago get massive snowfalls from what they've seen on TV/films but wouldn't believe at all that the southern US can get colder weather than our all-time lows and that parts of the northern US can get the Siberian temperatures that it gets. Charleston at 32N is at the same latitude as North Africa yet that 20F high is equivalent to the record lowest high of some places we have at 55N. Having sunbathed on a Spanish Atlantic beach in February in a city that's seen lying snow only six times in the past 60 years I wouldn't have believed cold, snowy Boston was at that exact same latitude if I didn't know it was true. Most of us don't realise the US is as far south as it is compared to us.
Looks very similar to San Diego, though with warmer summer nights. San Diego averages zero frosts, though once you get away from the sea you can get some. Europe is a "west coast climate".
As you might realize, the cold extremes in much of the south are a bit misleading. Places like Charleston, SC not to mention the Gulf Coast on average would have the warmest winters in Europe or very close to it.
Same here. I personally know some friends in central England that went to vacation in Orlando 2 Novembers ago and the week they went was when cold air was blowing in from the north and they had to go with 60s all week, when they were expecting what most people would expect, mid 70s to low 80s. Last time I went to Orlando during winter, I went in a normal year and experienced temps in the mid to high 70s. My fiancee is British and she's due to visit me this winter and I warned her that winters here in south-central PA can get cold like Sweden, and the week before I went home this past January, and the week after, it was blisteringly cold just like Stockholm was, even though my city sits right across the world from Madrid, Valencia, and Rome
Here's an interesting comparison. Orlando and Delhi, India are at roughly the same latitude. Average annual temperature is 86/53 in Delhi, 83/62 in Orlando.
In the January Orlando averages 72/50, Delhi averages 64/45. Coldest recorded temperature is 19 in Orlando and 30 in Delhi. Nanchang in China is at the same latitude and has an average of 48/37 in January. Couldn't find record low. You would have to go to 35°N or so in North America to get a January that cold.
Most all Warm Season grass types will turn brown when cooler temperatures arrive. Some southern gardeners seed their existing lawns with ryegrass each fall to maintain green color during the winter months. This is called “winter overseeding.”
As for this thread, I choose Newcastle as the lesser of two evils. The cooler the summer, the better off I am.
Looks very similar to San Diego, though with warmer summer nights. San Diego averages zero frosts, though once you get away from the sea you can get some. Europe is a "west coast climate".
As you might realize, the cold extremes in much of the south are a bit misleading. Places like Charleston, SC not to mention the Gulf Coast on average would have the warmest winters in Europe or very close to it.
Warmest winters in Europe away from the Canaries are in Cyprus (35N) with Paphos getting 17/8 in January. I can't think off the top of my head where it equates to in America, but look at that - they get more sun in winter than we do in summer despite that being their wet season!
I think the situation in North America is pretty unique, although there is a weaker parallel in South America. Namely, polar air can storm down into the lower latitudes with no mountains to block it. While the anticyclone over Siberia is much stronger and colder than North America, the fact the area is blocked by numerous mountains probably prevents places like Shanghai, on average colder than say Jacksonville, from getting even colder. If East Asia was as flat as the Midwest, Shanghai might be slightly colder but it's extreme lows might be even more extreme, about -20C or so.
Anyway, I think sub-tropical climate should refer more to the averages than the extremes. To me Miami is a tropical climate despite the fact it's got snow. Tropicality to me is not only to do with temps, because I consider places like Nairobi firmly tropical, but to do with wind/pressure systems and rainfall patterns.
I agree. I don't argue with the definitions are subtropical and tropical. To me, it's just fascinating how the deep south has seen such cold weather. The lack of mountains is probably one of the best explanations for it. With regard to South Florida and parts of the Caribbean, are there any other tropical areas in the world that have recorded high temperatures in the 40s and 50s?
Here's some more historical data courtesy of the NWS:
Jacksonville, FL's record low high is 27 F (2/13/1899). Jacksonville Beach's record low high is 34 F (12/23/1989). New Orleans's record low high is 26 F (1/11/1962). McAllen, Texas's (same latitude as the Florida everglades) record low high is 29 F (12/23/1989, 12/25/1983, 1/30/1951).
Looks very similar to San Diego, though with warmer summer nights. San Diego averages zero frosts, though once you get away from the sea you can get some. Europe is a "west coast climate".
As you might realize, the cold extremes in much of the south are a bit misleading. Places like Charleston, SC not to mention the Gulf Coast on average would have the warmest winters in Europe or very close to it.
...and that's what I think gets lost often in the understanding of the climate of the American subtropics: The handfull of cold/cool days and nights do not do justice to a climate zone that is otherwise warm much of the year.
They same can be misleading about garden zones. While it might seem that a city like Charleston and Seattle, London ...etc are both in the same garden zone becasue they have simailr annual lows/frosts...etc they are miles apart: Charleston is a climate with a hadfull of cold nights and days, that is otherwise sunny, warm to hot, with stable weather for 9 out of 12 months...while many high latitude oceanic climates like Seattle ...are anything but sunny, hot, or stable. This is why although both climates can grow palms...you would never see real subtropical farm crops like rice, cotton, sugercane...ect in cool oceanic climates. A zone zone 8/9 Seattle, London, or Casablanca....8 is a far cry from a zone 8/9 Charleston.
Looks very similar to San Diego, though with warmer summer nights. San Diego averages zero frosts, though once you get away from the sea you can get some. Europe is a "west coast climate".
As you might realize, the cold extremes in much of the south are a bit misleading. Places like Charleston, SC not to mention the Gulf Coast on average would have the warmest winters in Europe or very close to it.
I think the averages for places like Charleston are misleading. Say the average high in Jan is 58. I'm curious what the standard deviation from the average is for Janurary vs. a place like Rome or Barcelona.
A person travelling to Rome or Barcelona in January is pretty much assured that temps will be in the low to mid 50's for a high. While a person going to Charleston in Jan might have a week of 70 and then followed by a week of high 30's low 40's. I don't enjoy that kind of variability and much more enjoy a stable climate. That is why places like Aus and Europe always win out for me in winter.
I think the averages for places like Charleston are misleading. Say the average high in Jan is 58. I'm curious what the standard deviation from the average is for Janurary vs. a place like Rome or Barcelona.
A person travelling to Rome or Barcelona in January is pretty much assured that temps will be in the low to mid 50's for a high. While a person going to Charleston in Jan might have a week of 70 and then followed by a week of high 30's low 40's. I don't enjoy that kind of variability and much more enjoy a stable climate. That is why places like Aus and Europe always win out for me in winter.
Actually you might be surprised, those places don't get extreme cold but cold enough for snow:
I don't know any statistics but I've heard snow in Athens is more common than people think - in a mild winter here the mild Atlantic air pushes further east than normal, hits the cold Siberian block over eastern Europe and cold air gets pushed down towards Greece. Ooh, it happened just last week:
Though yes, their winter temperatures are still more stable than in the US on a day-to-day basis, yet last year the same site in Crete broke the European high temperature record for both January and February with 30.4C and 32.1C.
Viewing a thread - European high temperature record in Greece 32.1C (http://www.ukweatherworld.co.uk/forum/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=35438&start=1 - broken link)
Interestingly enough, the one place Europeans have for 'guaranteed' warm winter weather has just had its coldest weather for 40 years, a high of between 12 and 14C:
Based on average temperatures, snow in Barcelona doesn't seem too unusual. Average winter highs and lows are similar to the southeast US. Record lows are still much colder in the US though.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
