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View Poll Results: What would Miami be classified as
Subtropical 5 29.41%
Tropical 12 70.59%
Other 0 0%
Voters: 17. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 11-22-2020, 05:04 AM
 
Location: SE UK
14,820 posts, read 12,029,712 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sub-lieutenant View Post
Is a submarine a "sub-boat"? It has some boat charasterictics but it's not really a boat?


Is the NYC subway less underground than the London Tube, because it's called a subway. But what if a tube train goes sometimes above ground like the Paris Metro, it can't be called a subway because it's not always underground?


Or substitute? Player 1 gets substituted by player 2 coming in from the bench, but player 2 is not really a football player, because he wasn't in the starting XI? After all, player 2 is a substitute.



And how about submissive? If your wife has a strap-on and... yeah well I hope you get the point.


Curious.
https://www.dictionary.com/browse/su...inate%E2%80%9D
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Old 11-22-2020, 06:35 AM
B87
 
Location: Surrey/London
11,769 posts, read 10,599,580 times
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What do you think of the lovely tropical climate at the summit of Kilimanjaro, easthome?
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Old 11-22-2020, 10:44 AM
 
Location: Portsmouth, UK
13,486 posts, read 9,030,344 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by easthome View Post
The reality is they don't, they have US and Australian climates the same as Mediterranean climates, they're not in the Mediterranean, yes I know I'm being a bit facitious but modern climate classifications are nonsense, I mean I've even heard people trying to claim that Vancouver is Mediterranean and New York is sub-tropical! Lol. I don't care WHO decided on these things but it's laughable.
You are being more than a bit facetious, these are the way climates are classified under a standard world wide recognised system. As this is a weather forum one would think you would understand that people are going to use those systems. Yes some places are not going to match the typical stereotypes you would assume with regards to their classification, that's why it is better to use the abbreviated letter coding for them, rather than the contentious names.
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Old 11-24-2020, 05:29 AM
 
Location: Nirvana
346 posts, read 199,346 times
Reputation: 149
The truth of the matter is, as I said before, Miami is not a true tropical climate and it seems there is a lot of resistance on various forums on the matter. Yeah, as I stated number times before, South Florida comes very close to tropical but quite not there. Miami, albeit just a few latitudinal degrees north of the Tropic of Cancer and a good amount of solar energy relative to other places in the States, the sun is still not quite overhead there limiting the tropical conditions in the climate of Miami. One top of that, the continental influences are so great in North America, especially in the east of the Rockies. Winters are way too unstable in the Eastern US, even down to south Florida and parts of North Mexico.

A town in Mexico was mentioned that was said to have cool winter averages, I put them in the same boat as Miami and probably victim of those continental influences when these out-of-wack polar vortex knocks the jet stream crazy far down south and bring unbelievable cold in these places way too often. Other tropical or subtropical regions on other continents don't experience this, at least nowhere the frequency North America does. Of course, you have your abnormalities in other warm regions in the world as someone in this thread mentioned but they are extremely rare. Miami gets these cool events too frequently to be tropical, or full tropical rather.
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Old 11-24-2020, 06:13 AM
 
1,503 posts, read 915,138 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flamingGalah! View Post
You are being more than a bit facetious, these are the way climates are classified under a standard world wide recognised system. As this is a weather forum one would think you would understand that people are going to use those systems. Yes some places are not going to match the typical stereotypes you would assume with regards to their classification, that's why it is better to use the abbreviated letter coding for them, rather than the contentious names.
Just wait until he gets round to correcting geology. Maastrichtian fossils not from Maastricht. Gondwanan not from Gondwana, India. Cambrian rocks not from Wales.
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Old 11-24-2020, 09:10 AM
 
Location: Katy, Texas
1,440 posts, read 2,541,764 times
Reputation: 835
Quote:
Originally Posted by cevven View Post
The truth of the matter is, as I said before, Miami is not a true tropical climate and it seems there is a lot of resistance on various forums on the matter. Yeah, as I stated number times before, South Florida comes very close to tropical but quite not there. Miami, albeit just a few latitudinal degrees north of the Tropic of Cancer and a good amount of solar energy relative to other places in the States, the sun is still not quite overhead there limiting the tropical conditions in the climate of Miami. One top of that, the continental influences are so great in North America, especially in the east of the Rockies. Winters are way too unstable in the Eastern US, even down to south Florida and parts of North Mexico.

A town in Mexico was mentioned that was said to have cool winter averages, I put them in the same boat as Miami and probably victim of those continental influences when these out-of-wack polar vortex knocks the jet stream crazy far down south and bring unbelievable cold in these places way too often. Other tropical or subtropical regions on other continents don't experience this, at least nowhere the frequency North America does. Of course, you have your abnormalities in other warm regions in the world as someone in this thread mentioned but they are extremely rare. Miami gets these cool events too frequently to be tropical, or full tropical rather.
What happened to the magical tropical sun rays in southern China and northern Vietnam? Guess they can't penetrate the Siberian High Guangzhou, Hong Kong, and Hanoi are all well south of the Tropic of Cancer and none of those places make the 18C average cutoff in January. Even Vinh, Vietnam at 18.7*N just misses the 18C mark in January. You don't see coconuts at all in Guangzhou and even in Hong Kong they struggle through the cool winters and don't look that great.

Meanwhile Miami is at 25.8*N and averages a 20C mean temperature in January with some years as high as 22-23C. No other non-desert continental location at the same latitude can come close to the number of heat units Miami receives even in the middle of winter. Taipei at 25*N on an island has lower average highs in January and February than Miami's January mean temperature. Miami has an average January high temp 5.5C (10F) higher than Taipei. No green iguanas in Taipei, only southern Taiwan (and Miami).
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Old 11-25-2020, 01:15 AM
 
Location: Nirvana
346 posts, read 199,346 times
Reputation: 149
Quote:
Originally Posted by Asagi View Post
What happened to the magical tropical sun rays in southern China and northern Vietnam? Guess they can't penetrate the Siberian High Guangzhou, Hong Kong, and Hanoi are all well south of the Tropic of Cancer and none of those places make the 18C average cutoff in January. Even Vinh, Vietnam at 18.7*N just misses the 18C mark in January. You don't see coconuts at all in Guangzhou and even in Hong Kong they struggle through the cool winters and don't look that great.

Meanwhile Miami is at 25.8*N and averages a 20C mean temperature in January with some years as high as 22-23C. No other non-desert continental location at the same latitude can come close to the number of heat units Miami receives even in the middle of winter. Taipei at 25*N on an island has lower average highs in January and February than Miami's January mean temperature. Miami has an average January high temp 5.5C (10F) higher than Taipei. No green iguanas in Taipei, only southern Taiwan (and Miami).
Well, one thing I will credit Miami and pretty much the Southeast is that it does get warmer there on average than it does in the same latitude in China in many places - what gets the southeast, though, as I said before, is the how unstable the winters are. The Southeast US has warmer averages relative to similar latitudes in China BUT the Southeast has lower mean minimum temperatures.

Yeah, Hong Kong and Hanoi do have cooler high temperatures (still not too cool, though) than Miami but these cities in Asia are far more stable temperature wise in Winter. They rarely get hit with the extreme cold air blast (with -25 to 30+ temp abnormalites), or at least nowhere the frequency that Florida does.

Now, one place you mentioned that stuck out to me is Vinh in Vietnam. It's average temperatures are too bad for it's latitude but the record lows is throwing me off a bit. Several months had record lows in the 40's (39 in January) and the city is smack dab on the coast. However, I still think it's more stable in the winter than Miami although I strongly agree with you that Miami is warmer on average. Even when I look at Vinh low temperature for Jan (60, it's only like 20.8 degrees higher than the record low for that month, Miami is average low is 61.4 and the record low is 30 in 1985, which is a 31.4 temperature abnormality. That being said, Miami is 7 degrees north has an Jan avg low that a degree and some change higher than Vinh, both cities on the coast - so that does assist your argument quite well) it's not much lower than the average high temperature of that month, which is 68 degrees. Plus, while they do have pretty record lows of their latitude, they never got as cold as Miami and nowhere as often.

As I and a few others said before, if the Southeast didn't have to deal with an unstable polar vortex unlike the southern hemisphere, our climates will be much better, we will have a true subtropical climate in places like the Carolinas and all over the deep south and parts of the Mid-Atlantic even. However, Southeast China, even in the subtropical regions, can get chilly but win by temperature stability in the winter.
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Old 11-27-2020, 11:21 PM
 
Location: Nirvana
346 posts, read 199,346 times
Reputation: 149
Quote:
Originally Posted by Asagi View Post
What happened to the magical tropical sun rays in southern China and northern Vietnam? Guess they can't penetrate the Siberian High Guangzhou, Hong Kong, and Hanoi are all well south of the Tropic of Cancer and none of those places make the 18C average cutoff in January. Even Vinh, Vietnam at 18.7*N just misses the 18C mark in January. You don't see coconuts at all in Guangzhou and even in Hong Kong they struggle through the cool winters and don't look that great.
I forgot to add, the reason (you may know this anyway) why Eastern Asia and parts of Northern Southeast Asia has those cool or cold winter avg temps for their latitude is because of the Siberian High that brings in that cold, drier air to China. Now the Siberian High is not the same as the Polar Vortex, which is a low-pressure system that brings even colder air.
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Old 11-28-2020, 02:16 AM
 
1,224 posts, read 724,099 times
Reputation: 1330
Climatically, ie by stats and data, Miami comes across to a lay person like me as 'Tropical'
Even Mr Koppen thinks so and who are we to argue against that ( rolls eyes ).
Raw data ( and Koppen ) clearly shows an AW climate, and 'tropical', despite being 1,783miles from the Equator and at 25.46*N located 135 miles North of the Tropic of Cancer.
There are a set of geographical and climatic features that contribute to the 'tropical' classification, not the least important being the proximity to the Gulf Stream, being on a relatively narrow peninsular and sorta having nearby warm water on 3 sides of the peninsular.
Yes indeed, historical cold events can and do happen... the same can be said in south east continental Asia, Brazil and Northern Australia, but these are outliers to the mean and median max and mins that make up the climate data.
I have tried to find a similar climate in Australia to Miami and the closest match is Townsville, in North Queensland.
Townsville also suffers a bit from climate status questioning due to its relatively dry averages for a location on the coast at 19*S of the Equator. Many people refer to Townsville as 'Brownsville', or 'Mt Isa-By-The-Sea' ( referring to a dry dusty and hot mining town 500 miles inland ).
But a quick look at climate stats shows the two Cities very close climatically, even though Townsville is 450 miles closer to the Equator than Miami.
Summer months Miami and Townsville av max, av min.
89.5f, 76.0f - 88.7f, 75.4f
90.9f, 77.3f - 88.5f, 75.7f
91.0f, 77.4f - 88.2f, 75.4f
Autumn months
89.3f, 76.5f - 87.3f, 73.4f
86.2f, 73.5f - 85.5f, 69.1f
81.7f, 68.1f - 81.9f, 64.0f
Winter Months
77.9f, 63.0f - 78.1f, 58.5f
76.4f, 59.9f - 77.2f, 56.7f
78.1f, 62.3f - 79.0f, 58.5f
Spring months
80.3f, 64.9f - 82.0f, 63.3f
83.2f, 68.3f - 85.1f, 69.3f
87.0f, 72.9f - 86.4f, 73.2f
rainfall ?.... well lets see
Summer months
7.9" - 5.0"
4.7" - 10.6"
5.7" - 11.7"
Autumn months
7.0" - 7.6"
5.9"- 2.6"
3.1"- 1.3"
Winter months
1.7" - 0.84"
2.4" - 0.6"|
2.2" - 0.6"
Yearly totals....Miami 51.3" - Townsville 44.7"
Now, loath as I am to quote historical and outlier type extremes, Townsville, despite its coastal location deep in the Tropics, can and does occasionally suffer from extreme heat and surprising cold.
Nov - Feb have all had days exceeding 105F, with an extreme of 112f in Jan 1994.
A historical low of near freezing in August 1941 of 34f and in June 2007, there was a day of only 57f max. And in 2020, several sites just inland of Townsville barely made it to 53f ! So yes, extremes both hot and cold can occur deep into the tropics, but this is not an indication of yay or nay re 'tropicallity'
Townsville is regarded as a quintessential North Queensland Tropical City......the stats clearly show Miami as being very similar despite the site being outside of the 'Tropics'
Seems pretty 'tropical' to me......
PS... my Miami data not sourced from office sites, so any errors are mine and mine alone....happy to be corrected
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Old 11-28-2020, 08:20 PM
 
Location: Roslyn, NY
196 posts, read 137,178 times
Reputation: 135
Quote:
Originally Posted by greysrigging View Post
Climatically, ie by stats and data, Miami comes across to a lay person like me as 'Tropical'
Even Mr Koppen thinks so and who are we to argue against that ( rolls eyes ).
Raw data ( and Koppen ) clearly shows an AW climate, and 'tropical', despite being 1,783miles from the Equator and at 25.46*N located 135 miles North of the Tropic of Cancer.
There are a set of geographical and climatic features that contribute to the 'tropical' classification, not the least important being the proximity to the Gulf Stream, being on a relatively narrow peninsular and sorta having nearby warm water on 3 sides of the peninsular.
Yes indeed, historical cold events can and do happen... the same can be said in south east continental Asia, Brazil and Northern Australia, but these are outliers to the mean and median max and mins that make up the climate data.
I have tried to find a similar climate in Australia to Miami and the closest match is Townsville, in North Queensland.
Townsville also suffers a bit from climate status questioning due to its relatively dry averages for a location on the coast at 19*S of the Equator. Many people refer to Townsville as 'Brownsville', or 'Mt Isa-By-The-Sea' ( referring to a dry dusty and hot mining town 500 miles inland ).
But a quick look at climate stats shows the two Cities very close climatically, even though Townsville is 450 miles closer to the Equator than Miami.
Summer months Miami and Townsville av max, av min.
89.5f, 76.0f - 88.7f, 75.4f
90.9f, 77.3f - 88.5f, 75.7f
91.0f, 77.4f - 88.2f, 75.4f
Autumn months
89.3f, 76.5f - 87.3f, 73.4f
86.2f, 73.5f - 85.5f, 69.1f
81.7f, 68.1f - 81.9f, 64.0f
Winter Months
77.9f, 63.0f - 78.1f, 58.5f
76.4f, 59.9f - 77.2f, 56.7f
78.1f, 62.3f - 79.0f, 58.5f
Spring months
80.3f, 64.9f - 82.0f, 63.3f
83.2f, 68.3f - 85.1f, 69.3f
87.0f, 72.9f - 86.4f, 73.2f
rainfall ?.... well lets see
Summer months
7.9" - 5.0"
4.7" - 10.6"
5.7" - 11.7"
Autumn months
7.0" - 7.6"
5.9"- 2.6"
3.1"- 1.3"
Winter months
1.7" - 0.84"
2.4" - 0.6"|
2.2" - 0.6"
Yearly totals....Miami 51.3" - Townsville 44.7"
Now, loath as I am to quote historical and outlier type extremes, Townsville, despite its coastal location deep in the Tropics, can and does occasionally suffer from extreme heat and surprising cold.
Nov - Feb have all had days exceeding 105F, with an extreme of 112f in Jan 1994.
A historical low of near freezing in August 1941 of 34f and in June 2007, there was a day of only 57f max. And in 2020, several sites just inland of Townsville barely made it to 53f ! So yes, extremes both hot and cold can occur deep into the tropics, but this is not an indication of yay or nay re 'tropicallity'
Townsville is regarded as a quintessential North Queensland Tropical City......the stats clearly show Miami as being very similar despite the site being outside of the 'Tropics'
Seems pretty 'tropical' to me......
PS... my Miami data not sourced from office sites, so any errors are mine and mine alone....happy to be corrected
This is exactly how I feel about it, spot on. The averages of 76/60 in the coldest month are much above the tropical threshold of 64 average mean. The rainfall pattern is obviously typical tropical wet and dry. Sure there are cold snaps but not so extreme anymore, half of Miamians have never even witnessed a freeze (1985). The coldest that it got there in my lifetime is December 2010 with an extreme low of 36F, 39F at Miami Beach. Miami is not even borderline, it’s fully tropical, the borderline is up the Florida coast at Stuart, which averages 74/55 (even they haven’t got a freeze since 1994). Miami = tropical!!!
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