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View Poll Results: What would Miami be classified as
Subtropical 5 29.41%
Tropical 12 70.59%
Other 0 0%
Voters: 17. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 03-19-2014, 07:11 AM
 
Location: Mid Atlantic USA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JetsNHL View Post
You mean warmer?

Yes you are right. Miami averages are warmer than Brisbane.
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Old 03-19-2014, 10:16 AM
 
Location: Victoria, BC, Canada
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I think all this arguing about which zone a particular city is frequently oblivious to the underlying rationale for creating a climate classification system in the first place. If we could come to a consensus regarding why we care about climate systems and then evaluate a climate system according to those considerations then we would be further ahead.

I've said this before and I'll say it again: a useful climate classification system should allow one to predict with reasonable certainty that two different places within the same zone have roughly the same characteristics in domains such as ecology, lifestyle, and agriculture. Any climate system that fails to do that is not helpful. (There may be other domains that are important too.)

If this heuristic is applied to say Brisbane versus DC then Koppen clearly fails. We've been through that before and I have no ambition to raise that dead horse from the ground just to beat it again. However, it's less clear to me that there are clear and obvious difference between Brisbane and Miami in terms of ecology, lifestyle, and agriculture.

There may though be significant differences between Miami and a place like San Juan. It's clear that San Juan is less prone to cool weather. The more salient point though is do the occasional cold spells Miami suffers have a meaningful impact in the aforementioned domains? It may seem trivial at first but I'd guess those living in San Juan would never need to have a stockpile of warm-weather clothes in their closets whereas I bet most people in Miami do. Is that important? What about flora and fauna, how much do they differ and do we care? Someone earlier said something about breadfruit. Do we care about that?

If the answer to these questions is yes then it seems Miami and San Juan do have different climates. We then now have yet another reason for revising Koppen. Following along those lines it would seem that a revision to Koppen should then somehow need to incorporate extremes of temperature but I'll leave that for another post.

Thoughts?
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Old 03-19-2014, 12:20 PM
 
Location: Mid Atlantic USA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ed's Mountain View Post
a useful climate classification system should allow one to predict with reasonable certainty that two different places within the same zone have roughly the same characteristics in domains such as ecology, lifestyle, and agriculture. Any climate system that fails to do that is not helpful. (There may be other domains that are important too.)

If this heuristic is applied to say Brisbane versus DC then Koppen clearly fails. We've been through that before and I have no ambition to raise that dead horse from the ground just to beat it again. However, it's less clear to me that there are clear and obvious difference between Brisbane and Miami in terms of ecology, lifestyle, and agriculture.


If the answer to these questions is yes then it seems Miami and San Juan do have different climates. We then now have yet another reason for revising Koppen. Following along those lines it would seem that a revision to Koppen should then somehow need to incorporate extremes of temperature but I'll leave that for another post.

Looking at it along the lines of climate and geography, I think you are correct. Are the two topics readily separable? I don't believe so. Geography includes climate and culture imo. And culture is heavily dependent on climate I think. Just look at the history of the US with the South and North having such a different culture that lead to the Civil War. Obviously the climate of Charleston and Philadelphia are quite different.

Extremes add an interesting component to a classification, but usually everyone in the US shouts it down while those in climates where extremes are rare think it important. When 1980's style cold destroys millions of acres of citrus trees in Florida and Texas, I think it rather important to include the extremes in the classification. Somehow the classification of US subtropcial climates in the Southeast have to include the continental nature of the climates.
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Old 03-19-2014, 02:07 PM
 
25,021 posts, read 27,919,738 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tom77falcons View Post
Looking at it along the lines of climate and geography, I think you are correct. Are the two topics readily separable? I don't believe so. Geography includes climate and culture imo. And culture is heavily dependent on climate I think. Just look at the history of the US with the South and North having such a different culture that lead to the Civil War. Obviously the climate of Charleston and Philadelphia are quite different.

Extremes add an interesting component to a classification, but usually everyone in the US shouts it down while those in climates where extremes are rare think it important. When 1980's style cold destroys millions of acres of citrus trees in Florida and Texas, I think it rather important to include the extremes in the classification. Somehow the classification of US subtropcial climates in the Southeast have to include the continental nature of the climates.
I still think Trewartha did a decent job with classifying US climates, and east Asian climates as well.
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Old 03-19-2014, 02:15 PM
 
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Miami have a tropical climate but it's very close to the subtropical area.
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Old 03-19-2014, 11:05 PM
 
Location: Mid Atlantic USA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by theunbrainwashed View Post
I still think Trewartha did a decent job with classifying US climates, and east Asian climates as well.

He doesn't take into account the extreme anomalies either though.
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Old 03-20-2014, 07:25 AM
 
Location: Windsor Ontario/Colchester Ontario
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tom77falcons View Post
But how often would Havana or Nassau have a high temp below 60F? Only a couple years ago Miami had a winter with 10 days that had a high temp below 60F. Nassau and Cuba are more tropical as they would never record low temp in the 20'sF, unlike Miami and S. Florida.
2010, 35f low In Cuba!
https://socioecohistory.wordpress.co...-temperatures/
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Old 02-01-2015, 01:00 PM
 
Location: Las Cruces NM
155 posts, read 149,685 times
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Miami = humid, wet-dry subtropical, but transitional to tropical

(humid = mostly higher atmospheric humidity; wet-dry = wet and dry seasons each year; subtropical = not Koppen, but also extreme cold >32F / 0C)
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Old 11-11-2016, 07:36 AM
 
Location: Key Biscayne, FL
5,706 posts, read 3,772,648 times
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Definately tropical, but an unsusual tropical climate. Few other tropical climates have average lows in the 50's in winter, have seen freezes, and have had highs in the 40's. Current forecast: warm but doesn't feel "tropical", at least in my opinion.

Veterans DaySunny, with a high near 81. North wind around 5 mph becoming light and variable.
TonightMostly clear, with a low around 63. Calm wind becoming north 5 to 7 mph after midnight.
SaturdayMostly sunny, with a high near 80. North wind around 8 mph becoming east in the afternoon.
Saturday NightA 20 percent chance of showers after 1am. Partly cloudy, with a low around 66. Northeast wind 3 to 6 mph.
SundayA 20 percent chance of showers before 1pm. Mostly sunny, with a high near 80. East wind 6 to 13 mph.
Sunday NightMostly cloudy, with a low around 70. East wind 3 to 8 mph.
MondayA 20 percent chance of showers. Partly sunny, with a high near 80. East wind 3 to 7 mph.
Monday NightA 30 percent chance of showers. Mostly cloudy, with a low around 69. East wind 5 to 7 mph.
TuesdayA 40 percent chance of showers. Cloudy, with a high near 77. Northeast wind around 7 mph.
Tuesday NightA 40 percent chance of showers. Mostly cloudy, with a low around 67.
WednesdayA 30 percent chance of showers. Partly sunny, with a high near 76.
Wednesday NightA 20 percent chance of showers. Partly cloudy, with a low around 63.
ThursdaySunny, with a high near 77.
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Old 11-11-2016, 08:29 AM
 
Location: João Pessoa,Brazil(The easternmost point of Americas)
2,540 posts, read 2,003,466 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AJ1013 View Post
Definately tropical, but an unsusual tropical climate. Few other tropical climates have average lows in the 50's in winter, have seen freezes, and have had highs in the 40's. Current forecast: warm but doesn't feel "tropical", at least in my opinion.
The same thing happens in Tropical climates of Central South America,look at Assuncion,it has a tropical climate but almost every year register lows close to freezing when intense cold winds from South blow there.
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