Do palms give a false impression of Temperate Climates? (colder, Europe, outside)

[B87]

There are 3 months of the year with sub 10c average highs, and the majority of days in those months are not drizzly. If you are going to include November and March as 'sub 10c days' then at least note that about 35-40% of winter days have highs above 10c. Heathrow has 300 days per year with highs above 10c. The remaining 65 days is not 'half the year'.

You said originally that half the year is sub 10c drizzle, which is quite clearly nonsense.

I still don't understand what the difference is between having a cold tolerant broadleaf vs a cold tolerant Palm? Heathrow and Kew are not in the UHI, yet CIDPs do not 'scrape by'. They grow and survived the winter of 2010, as well as some winters in the 80s.

I have moaned about the recent blip of abnormally cloudy summers, and have made no secret of the fact. I've never moaned about or climate when we've had a normal summer.

Believe what you want, but you are wrong.

[muslim12]

Originally Posted by Beercoholism

Sorry, your weather states say that your average highs are around 11C or lower for 5 months of the year, and that is the warmest climate in the UK. How bout Birmingham, 5 months under 10C; Liverpool, 5 months under 10C. Let's use Amsterdam as a Northern European station, the situation is even worse. 5 months of the year are below 10C! How about Warsaw and Copenhagen, those 5 months are below 7C!

Sorry, it is not a stereotype, but the facts. 100% accurate. Sorry. These climates are not worthy of palm trees, even if CIDPs can scrape by in the "warmest" enclaves and heat islands. Cry me a river



3 months of the year at Heathrow average under 9C so that is BS. The shoulder months also see many under-10C cloud and drizzle so you are wrong.



Not really, no. In the main urban heat island and the extreme S/SE/SW coasts have CIDPs scrape by, but get one cold outbreak and it's good night.

Yes you do. You are perhaps the most insecure poster here about their climate, you have this delusion that London is warm and subtropical and if anyone expresses anything to the contrary, you get all defensive. Hate to break it to ya, but London is not warm nor an appropriate climate for any of the worlds subtropical palm species.

Not too mention they didn't see a 20c day till second week of may this year.

[Paddy234]

Originally Posted by easthome

I'm sorry but 16 degrees cannot 'feel like 20 degrees' or else it WOULD BE 20 degrees! The FACT is that both New Zealand and the UK have a similar climate

Lol Britain is not subtropical no matter how much you wish it was plus it is regularly dull and recieves little sunshine. NZ is Warmer and sunnier and in Europe would be more similar to France and Spain than the UK. Again though it's still too diverse a climate to compare to them either so OZ is the best similarity. Northern Europe is no place for palms unlike NZ, oz southern Europe and parts of the US etc

[Joe90]

Originally Posted by easthome

I'm sorry, you can try and dress it up any way you like but the truth is that New Zealand and the UK have similar climates, neither are 'tropical' both are 'mild' 16 degrees is sixteen degrees it is impossible for 16 degrees to be 'warmer' over there than it is over here! I think you are just basing a lot of what you say on the (quite frankly) awfully in-accurate stereotypes.

Yep 16C is 16C, but 16C in the shade isn't the same as 16C in the sun -likewise 16C and sunny at 50"N, won't feel the same as 16C and sunny at 40"S.

NZ and UK do have the same classification, but the multitude of UK immigrants here typically talk about differences between the two climates, not similarities.

The 16C feels like 20C comment is common from overseas visitors, typically those from higher latitudes. I've heard 25C feels like 35C, from a German -a bit of an exaggeration for sure, but it was interesting to note, that when a nephew and his friend (a German) went to Germany two summers ago, they talked about " fake heat" and the mid 30sC temperatures feeling quite a bit cooler -more exaggeration I'm sure, but I think it does still point to the difference sun angle can have on thermal sensation.

[Guajara]

The sun angle difference between Southern Germany and the South Island of NZ isn't that big.
I don't think i would feel much of a difference in Summer.

Originally Posted by Paddy234

Lol Britain is not subtropical no matter how much you wish it was plus it is regularly dull and recieves little sunshine. NZ is Warmer and sunnier and in Europe would be more similar to France and Spain than the UK. Again though it's still too diverse a climate to compare to them either so OZ is the best similarity. Northern Europe is no place for palms unlike NZ, oz southern Europe and parts of the US etc

Hmm, i would say the South Island of New Zealand is closer to Southern England than it is to Spain.

[Joe90]

Originally Posted by Guajara

The sun angle difference between Southern Germany and the South Island of NZ isn't that big.
I don't think i would feel much of a difference in Summer.



Hmm, i would say the South Island of New Zealand is closer to Southern England than it is to Spain.

It depends what part of the South Island you're talking about. It does span nearly 7 degrees of latitude, so some parts would be more like Northern Spain, and some more like Southern England.

[Paddy234]

Originally Posted by Guajara

The sun angle difference between Southern Germany and the South Island of NZ isn't that big.
I don't think i would feel much of a difference in Summer.



Hmm, i would say the South Island of New Zealand is closer to Southern England than it is to Spain.

Christchurch has the same latitude as Bilbao in Northern Spain and Invercargill is around Paris. Google new Zealand in the Northern hemisphere and the first site that comes up called ENZ shows this which is interesting

[Paddy234]

Originally Posted by Guajara

The sun angle difference between Southern Germany and the South Island of NZ isn't that big.
I don't think i would feel much of a difference in Summer.



Hmm, i would say the South Island of New Zealand is closer to Southern England than it is to Spain.

You would definitely feel a difference as the New Zealand sun has the highest UV rays In the world and has one of the highest rates of skin cancer, it can be a blessing and curse at times. Nice and warm in a winters day but sometimes too intense in summer

[flamingGalah!]

Originally Posted by FirebirdCamaro1220

Robusta are less cold hardy than filifera, here in the SW, you don't see any robusta above 2,000 ft/600 m elevation in the deserts and on the coast, they only go as far north as the Bay Area. Filifera however are found as high as 4,200 ft/1,260 m here in AZ. Filifera are good to 8B in dry climates, in humid/wet climates though, filifera don't do well below Zone 9B/10A.

Everything I've read about robusta says that temps below -6.7°C in a dry climate or -3°C in a wet/humid climate does damage or even kills them.

In the UK Washingtonia robusta are generally damaged at around -5C (killed if small plants). They must be hardy to at least -7.2C as that is what the mature specimen at Tresco has taken...

Originally Posted by Beercoholism

Palms in the UK and northern Europe are out of place. Palms belong in a climate worthy of them. Can't enjoy palms in cold climates.

Does that include all the thousands of palms planted all over Melbourne too then

Originally Posted by Beercoholism

Ok, I've been drinking so I am in a no-nonsense mood. Palm trees do not belong in cool climates like London, the UK, Northern Europe, Vancouver etc. The architecture doesn't suit, the natural landscape doesn't suit and the climate doesn't suit. Personally, I think people who plant palm trees in such climates are really just trying to live out their fantasy of being in a warm climate. Councils that plant palm trees in such climates are just try-hards artificially attempting to make their climates seem warm and appealing when infact it is not. CDIPs even if they survive will not take away the crappy climates of the UK, northern Europe and coastal BC. I certainly could not enjoy palm trees when half the year is sub-10C drizzle. What is the point? Stick to native vegetation. There are an abundance of gorgeous trees that are native to these climates and are aesthetic and match the architecture and landscape.

I can tell you were drunk lol...

The architecture in many places is similar, especially with older buildings, so I fail to see how a palm can not look right? Should they only be planted where people live in grass huts? lol

If any plant can grow in a certain place, then why not plant it? It makes no difference if it is a palm tree a pine tree or a rose bush...

Originally Posted by Beercoholism

...Not really, no. In the main urban heat island and the extreme S/SE/SW coasts have CIDPs scrape by, but get one cold outbreak and it's good night...

And you are wrong about CIDP's just "scraping by" in the mildest locations, they are FULLY HARDY in those locations! Anywhere in the UK that has not gone below -8C in the past can grow CIDP's long term. The tall mature ones on the Isles of Scilly & in Torquay have been there over 100 years & have seen plenty of cold winters...

[Beercoholism]

Good for them. The climate still sucks ass and planting palm trees isn't going to make it warm. Nothing more than a vain attempt to make the climate look "good" to outsiders.