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Old 02-21-2012, 11:54 AM
 
Location: Toronto
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Patricius Maximus View Post

I also believe the rest of my post there may have some value in this thread, namely the subtropical/tropical conflation and its impact on climate classification (especially ones driven by emotionalism):
Do most people, who are not climate/geography enthusiasts, such as the average man on the street, really use subtropical/tropical in daily life as terminology and distinguish them, or particularly care to?

I'd imagine not so much.

I even recall some people (who've lived in mostly cool or continental climates) describe many kinds of climates as tropical (ie. SoCal, New Orleans, Florida, much of Australia etc.) which I think what they really meant was "a climate that'd be suited for vacationing in or feel warm compared to coming from a place with freezing winters".

I also notice some people use subtropical and tropical interchangeably, and some people not quite sure what it means (maybe some think it's roughly a synonym or means "just slightly close to the tropical area").

One benefit though could be to have these terms as labels used to sell (eg. real estate, tourism etc.) for a location/area because some people who like warmth over much of the year might like the name "subtropical/tropical" due to the implication that it'd feel warm for much of the year, not any technical definition.
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Old 02-21-2012, 11:54 AM
 
Location: Perth, Western Australia
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Patricius Maximus View Post
Part of this is a language usage issue. "Continental" in this context doesn't refer to merely having seasonal variation - it's a particular kind of seasonal variation - namely the climates cold enough to maintain a snowpack in Winter and still be warm enough to support trees in Summer. Simplified, a continental location will feature cold Winters and warm or hot Summers.
I unerstand that NYC isn't continental by definition, its just difficult to recocile it to similarly defined climates in other regions. Perhaps continental isn't the right term, but neither is subtropical.
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Old 02-21-2012, 02:15 PM
 
Location: Laurentia
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stumbler. View Post
Do most people, who are not climate/geography enthusiasts, such as the average man on the street, really use subtropical/tropical in daily life as terminology and distinguish them, or particularly care to?

I'd imagine not so much.
It seems to me that most people in most circumstances think more in terms of heat and cold at particular times of year and rainy vs. dry, i.e. more general terms than specific climate types. For instance the Sun Belt being described as a "warm climate". Of course most people would use tropical to describe somewhere like the Amazon, and other well-defined locations, but that's less common.

Quote:
I even recall some people (who've lived in mostly cool or continental climates) describe many kinds of climates as tropical (ie. SoCal, New Orleans, Florida, much of Australia etc.) which I think what they really meant was "a climate that'd be suited for vacationing in or feel warm compared to coming from a place with freezing winters".
I think you nailed it on that one. What they should really say is "warm climate" .
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Old 02-21-2012, 02:35 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sulkiercupid View Post
I'm not suggesting it is continental in the classifications of Koppen, I'm just saying it shares many similarities with a continental climate only a few degrees warmer. The fact that climates as distinct as New York and Hong Kong can share the same classification seems odd to me. Britain has a pretty much stock standard oceanic climate anyway, don't think many would question its category.
Ulan Bator and edit* Springfield, IL are distinctly different by 30 degrees in the winter, yet they both belong under humid continental. What about Harbin, China vs. Chicago- these two distinctly different climates happened to be in the same humid continental group. Humid subtropical Seoul, South Korea is colder than NYC in the winter months, how come nobody cares to dispute its classification? And how about Reykjavik vs. Yakutsk, the latter is 60 degrees colder than the former.

Last edited by Kaul; 02-21-2012 at 03:12 PM..
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Old 02-21-2012, 03:38 PM
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Location: Western Massachusetts
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Patricius Maximus View Post
A wind chill of -1 or -2C is far from what I would consider "icy cold", especially with a 5C actual temperature. If it feels cold to you, I don't mind, but icy cold connotes some objective standard of things being "icy", with water being able to freeze easily.
It was 5°C out with a windchill of 1°C and I walked around with a T-shirt and good jacket. Wasn't bad, but wasn't outside for that long.
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Old 02-21-2012, 04:02 PM
 
Location: Orlandooooooo
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Far too many cities in the Sub Tropic zone in the U.S. Wayyy too many.
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Old 02-21-2012, 05:25 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IAm_FloridaBorn View Post
Far too many cities in the Sub Tropic zone in the U.S. Wayyy too many.
sub tropic means you chance it by not having snow tires and you only have to scrape ice off your windshield every other morning
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Old 02-21-2012, 09:25 PM
 
Location: Wilsonville, OR
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I don't think western Oregon and Washington should be classified in the mediterranean group. Sure, they may have somewhat warm and dry summers, but for the vast majority of the year, the weather is intensely oceanic. In fact, I think the Trewartha climate classification scheme does indeed put the Pacific Northwest firmly in the oceanic group. The vegetation here is very different from the majority of mediterranean areas as well. I would imagine most of them aren't home to vast tracts of temperate rainforest.
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Old 02-22-2012, 01:13 PM
 
Location: Laurentia
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I may say that the vegetation in the Pacific Northwest is adapted to dry season conditions, and the part of Western Oregon/Washington that is a temperate rainforest is not classified as Mediterranean, it has an Oceanic climate (and this is under Koeppen, not just Trewartha). The rest of the region does have a Mediterranean (Csb) climate, and that includes the cities of Seattle, Portland, and Vancouver, which are decidedly not in a temperate rainforest. Don't confuse the differing portions of Western Oregon and Washington.

I however must add that the common notion about the Pacific Northwest's climate is absurd, as the very nature of Mediterranean climates is for the summer to be dry with warm/hot conditions and for the winter or rest of the year to have oceanic-type weather (mild/cool and rain-dominated). The Pacific Northwest (well, the Seattle/Portland/Vancouver portion) is very different from actual oceanic climates. If it's otherwise like an oceanic climate but has a summer dry season, it's Mediterranean. By definition an oceanic climate has no dry season, but Seattle and Portland do have a dry season.

Just because Seattle and Portland have oceanic weather much of the year doesn't mean it's oceanic or not Mediterranean - that's precisely the point of classifying it as Csb instead of Cfb .
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Old 02-22-2012, 02:05 PM
 
Location: Top of the South, NZ
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Patricius Maximus View Post
I may say that the vegetation in the Pacific Northwest is adapted to dry season conditions, and the part of Western Oregon/Washington that is a temperate rainforest is not classified as Mediterranean, it has an Oceanic climate (and this is under Koeppen, not just Trewartha). The rest of the region does have a Mediterranean (Csb) climate, and that includes the cities of Seattle, Portland, and Vancouver, which are decidedly not in a temperate rainforest. Don't confuse the differing portions of Western Oregon and Washington.

I however must add that the common notion about the Pacific Northwest's climate is absurd, as the very nature of Mediterranean climates is for the summer to be dry with warm/hot conditions and for the winter or rest of the year to have oceanic-type weather (mild/cool and rain-dominated). The Pacific Northwest (well, the Seattle/Portland/Vancouver portion) is very different from actual oceanic climates. If it's otherwise like an oceanic climate but has a summer dry season, it's Mediterranean. By definition an oceanic climate has no dry season, but Seattle and Portland do have a dry season.

Just because Seattle and Portland have oceanic weather much of the year doesn't mean it's oceanic or not Mediterranean - that's precisely the point of classifying it as Csb instead of Cfb .
That would imply that true oceanic climates have rain dominated summers. The average rain day figures for here aren't that much different to Seattle/Portland/Vancouver, even if the amounts are much higher,eg -100 mm/4 inches here yesterday.

I think that even in climates that have oceanic summers, Rain dominated summers wouldn't be universal.
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