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I wouldn't live in the SE of the States for that very reason, no freshly squeezed orange juice would be too big a price to pay. I wouldn't mind a little of their heat tacked on to our summer temps though. Our record low is 20F/-6C and our coldest average minimum is 34F/1.1C, with 33 days getting below 32F/0C, so more winterlike here in some regards. Also at the same latitude south as Barcelona. Right, time for an OJ.
Your avg low is 34F and you get more days below 32F than Charleston, SC, yet you can grow oranges and they can't. Tis a cruel world. The std deviation on your winter average lows must be very low to have an all time record low of 20F, which is 1F above Barcelona's record low. This is why averages need to be combined with the std deviation or else you are only seeing half the picture. Charleston's std deviation on Jan avg min of 10.1F is actually higher than the 9.6 here in Philadelphia. Usually if a cold front sweeps by us in the winter, it's only a day or two before it goes by the deep south as well. There are no high mountains to block it or water bodies to modify it.
Your avg low is 34F and you get more days below 32F than Charleston, SC, yet you can grow oranges and they can't. Tis a cruel world. The std deviation on your winter average lows must be very low to have an all time record low of 20F, which is 1F above Barcelona's record low. This is why averages need to be combined with the std deviation or else you are only seeing half the picture. Charleston's std deviation on Jan avg min of 10.1F is actually higher than the 9.6 here in Philadelphia. Usually if a cold front sweeps by us in the winter, it's only a day or two before it goes by the deep south as well. There are no high mountains to block it or water bodies to modify it.
Tis indeed a cruel world. I've never paid much attention to std deviation, but will pay more attention to it. It's interesting that it is so low here considering the weather is highly changeable. Something to do with the mountains and sea perhaps.
I wouldn't live in the SE of the States for that very reason, no freshly squeezed orange juice would be too big a price to pay. I wouldn't mind a little of their heat tacked on to our summer temps though. Our record low is 20F/-6C and our coldest average minimum is 34F/1.1C, with 33 days getting below 32F/0C, so more winterlike here in some regards. Also at the same latitude south as Barcelona. Right, time for an OJ.
Portions of the southeast do have average lows of 34 F and lower. Myrtle Beach and Columbia, SC come to mind. Once you're in the "upper" south, cities like Nashville have average lows in the 20s. Some winter days could be bitterly cold with highs failing to rise above freezing, let alone lows.
Even places as far south as Monterrey, Mexico (25N) have days every decade or two where the high fails to reach above freezing. It happened most recently in February 2011.
Location: The western periphery of Terra Australis
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Originally Posted by deneb78
Even places as far south as Monterrey, Mexico (25N) have days every decade or two where the high fails to reach above freezing. It happened most recently in February 2011.
Goes without saying that Monterrey is an upland climate. Even places on the equator in Ecuador fail to get above freezing.
Goes without saying that Monterrey is an upland climate. Even places on the equator in Ecuador fail to get above freezing.
Monterrey is not that far upland.. 400 metres... which is lower than both Canberra and Alice Springs... and places on the equator in Ecuador fail to get above freezing above about 5000 metres... certainly no lower elevation locations.
Here is the data for February 2011 for Monterrey. As you can see after the cold day on February 3rd (high of 0°C and low of -4°C), the temps warmed back up very quickly afterwards:
Portions of the southeast do have average lows of 34 F and lower. Myrtle Beach and Columbia, SC come to mind. Once you're in the "upper" south, cities like Nashville have average lows in the 20s. Some winter days could be bitterly cold with highs failing to rise above freezing, let alone lows.
I know there is a lot of anti-warm weather people, which is fine – but I think it’s fair to give new data that NOAA worked so hard to compile over the last 30 years at least equal time (lol).
According to NWS Myrtle Beach – the coldest average minima temps in Dec/Jan/Feb lows in MB are 37/36/38 F…not 34 F. It is a bit unfair to use the coldest station in the entire southeast …Nashiville, TN (a high elevation station on the extreme northern fringe of the SE states) and say it has typical lows of the region. True, there are 10 to 40 days per year (depending on the station ) that will see lows below freezing ….but (beyond Nashville) few places from Texas to South Carolina have average lows in the 20’s…most have lows from the upper 30’s to middle 40’s.
Also, a day that fails to get above 0 C (32 F) is extremely rare beyond the very highest elevation stations of Nashville: Not only do the cities on the coastal plain average near zero days with a max high above 32 F/0 C…but most of the stations well inland and in the upper south like Raleigh,NC…Dallas,TX,…Fayetteville,NC….Shree port,LA….Atlanta,GA….Cloumbia,CA might see 1 or 2 days out of 365 days when the daily high fails to reach freezing(Columbia by the way averages just 0.5 days per year according to their NWS site).
Also,there seems to be a big difference between “large scale commercial fruit production”…and “private garden cultivated fruit growing” . So while here in the USA, the large scale commercial orange production is found in TX, CA, AZ, and Florida (the largest in the USA and #2 in the world behind Brazil)…many, many small scale and private gardeners grow oranges in the far southern USA outside these areas. Private gardens with oranges are found in Las Cruz, NM, New Orleans, LA, Mobile, AL ….and yes, even South Carolina – that state we love to hate:
I know there is a lot of anti-warm weather people, which is fine – but I think it’s fair to give new data that NOAA worked so hard to compile over the last 30 years at least equal time (lol).
According to NWS Myrtle Beach – the coldest average minima temps in Dec/Jan/Feb lows in MB are 37/36/38 F…not 34 F. It is a bit unfair to use the coldest station in the entire southeast …Nashiville, TN (a high elevation station on the extreme northern fringe of the SE states) and say it has typical lows of the region. True, there are 10 to 40 days per year (depending on the station ) that will see lows below freezing ….but (beyond Nashville) few places from Texas to South Carolina have average lows in the 20’s…most have lows from the upper 30’s to middle 40’s.
Also, a day that fails to get above 0 C (32 F) is extremely rare beyond the very highest elevation stations of Nashville: Not only do the cities on the coastal plain average near zero days with a max high above 32 F/0 C…but most of the stations well inland and in the upper south like Raleigh,NC…Dallas,TX,…Fayetteville,NC….Shree port,LA….Atlanta,GA….Cloumbia,CA might see 1 or 2 days out of 365 days when the daily high fails to reach freezing(Columbia by the way averages just 0.5 days per year according to their NWS site).
Also,there seems to be a big difference between “large scale commercial fruit production”…and “private garden cultivated fruit growing” . So while here in the USA, the large scale commercial orange production is found in TX, CA, AZ, and Florida (the largest in the USA and #2 in the world behind Brazil)…many, many small scale and private gardeners grow oranges in the far southern USA outside these areas. Private gardens with oranges are found in Las Cruz, NM, New Orleans, LA, Mobile, AL ….and yes, even South Carolina – that state we love to hate:
My mistake. It'll take me a while to memorize the new averages. It doesn't have anything to do with being anti-warmth. And I like South Carolina. It's much better than Florida's climate . I'm one of the first to complain about the southeast's hot and humid weather. But that doesn't change the fact that it can get very cold during the winter. Highs and lows swing all over the place. Highs can be in the 30s/40s one day, and be in the 70s less than a week later. Lows often drop down into the 20s or even teens, yet the warmest high of the month could be in the 70s or even near 80 F in the warmer places. I notice you talk about coastal cities like Charleston, Savannah, and New Orleans. But cities such as Columbia, Atlanta, Nashville, and Birminghman are also a part of the region. Sure Nashville might be more mid-south, or upper south (whatever the term), but it is still a part of the southeastern US.
Wow, that is a lot of effort for citrus, but worth it in SC (on a small scale)given the temps the other 99.5% of the time. It's easy to take some things for granted, citrus are an easy grow around here, with water, wasps and possums being the main problems.
My mistake. It'll take me a while to memorize the new averages. It doesn't have anything to do with being anti-warmth. And I like South Carolina. It's much better than Florida's climate . I'm one of the first to complain about the southeast's hot and humid weather. But that doesn't change the fact that it can get very cold during the winter. Highs and lows swing all over the place. Highs can be in the 30s/40s one day, and be in the 70s less than a week later. Lows often drop down into the 20s or even teens, yet the warmest high of the month could be in the 70s or even near 80 F in the warmer places. I notice you talk about coastal cities like Charleston, Savannah, and New Orleans. But cities such as Columbia, Atlanta, Nashville, and Birminghman are also a part of the region. Sure Nashville might be more mid-south, or upper south (whatever the term), but it is still a part of the southeastern US.
Two words: standard deviation.
Just one more note quick note (we should not hijack the Op's thread on Kansas and Dc climates into another southern USA thread)...but remember that numeric values for standard deviations are no different than values 90 days, tropical cyclones, frost…etc . They can’t be extrapolated to attempt to try to say that the numeric values (whatever they may be) happen very often. A standard deviation of even 30 F (and most of the stations in the south have std deviations of more like 6 to 11 F) means very little if it happens on only a few days a year.
My point I guess is that you seem under the impression that many stations in the subtropical Gulf/south Atlantic states will see high temps in the 30’s/40’s every few days or very frequently. Climatically, that is not even close to true; The reality, is that most stations will see only 10 to maybe 30 days ( out of 365 days a year ) when the high fails to reach above 50 F (and more like 5 to 7 days all year when the high is below 40 F). Here are some numbers direct from NOAA’s new 30 year data (you do the math for the number of days that fail to get above 50 F):
DAYS WHEN HIGH IS ABOVE 50 F/10 C at NWS stations:
Coastal cities:
Charleston, SC = 351 days.
Savannah, GA = 355 days.
Hilton Head,SC = 358 days.
Brunswick,GA = 352 days.
Mobile, AL = 355 days.
New Orleans, LA = 357 days.
Galveston, TX = 353 days.
Agreed, Nashville is part of the subtropical Gulf/South Atlantic climate area (Cfa)…but in fairness to the seven states that make of this general climate region (TX, LA, MI, AL,GA, SC, TN)… Nashville and even Atlanta are not representative of this climate zone.
Moderator cut: edit
Last edited by nei; 10-29-2011 at 11:18 AM..
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