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Dec 24 or 25 1989:
7C/44F Key West (tropical zone)
0C/32F Naples (tropical zone)
-1C/30F Miami (tropical zone)
-1C/30F Ft Lauderdale (tropical zone)
-2C/28F West Palm Beach (tropical zone)
-2C/28F Fort Myers (marginally tropical zone, bordering subtropical zone)
-4C/25F Tampa (subtropical zone)
-5C/23F Fort Pierce just North of Port St Lucie (subtropical zone, bordering tropical zone)
-6C/21F Daytona Beach (subtropical zone)
-6C/21F Orlando (subtropical zone)
-8C/18F Jacksonville (subtropical zone)
Dec 23 1989:
Subtropical zone, no where near tropical zone
-8C/17F Brownsville
-11C/12F Corpus Christi
-13C/9F Houston (someone claimed Houston tropical, does it sound tropical to you ?)
LOL on how you think that Brownsville, Corpus Christi in particular are "nowhere near tropical zone". You are so defensive about this so called tropical zone of S. Florida, that it clouds your judgement to a certain extent.
Yes, we all know that S. Florida averages are warmer than S. Texas. If S. Texas were surrounded by warm water like S. Florida is, then you could bet your hiney that it would be a VERY close comparison. The fact is, is that S. Texas at ANY time of the year could easily exceed any temp that S. Florida could see, due to the presence of land mass to the west and SW. This doesn't make it more desirable to live, necessarily, but it is what it is.
Because of the landmass, artic fronts can make it easier down to this neck of the woods as well, but if you really look at it, S. Texas isn't THAT much colder than S. Florida when it comes to artic air masses. In fact, its usually just a few degrees differences, minus the "historic" artic masses, like in 1989, for example. Most locales in S. Texas average less than 10 freezes a year, with many areas close to the coast averaging 1-3 a year or less (meaning some years don't see freezes). Here in Portland, TX, we have palm trees all over the place. We grow citrus just fine, even banannas grow here in deep S. Texas (ever hear of Valley Banannas??).
So, please disconnect yourself with how much "better" or more "tropical" S. Florida is than S. Texas. See it for what it is. And, for the record, IMHO, S. Florida "borderlines" on tropical, given that it can, and will continue to have freezes here and there.
LOL on how you think that Brownsville, Corpus Christi in particular are "nowhere near tropical zone". You are so defensive about this so called tropical zone of S. Florida, that it clouds your judgement to a certain extent.
Yes, we all know that S. Florida averages are warmer than S. Texas. If S. Texas were surrounded by warm water like S. Florida is, then you could bet your hiney that it would be a VERY close comparison. The fact is, is that S. Texas at ANY time of the year could easily exceed any temp that S. Florida could see, due to the presence of land mass to the west and SW. This doesn't make it more desirable to live, necessarily, but it is what it is.
Because of the landmass, artic fronts can make it easier down to this neck of the woods as well, but if you really look at it, S. Texas isn't THAT much colder than S. Florida when it comes to artic air masses. In fact, its usually just a few degrees differences, minus the "historic" artic masses, like in 1989, for example. Most locales in S. Texas average less than 10 freezes a year, with many areas close to the coast averaging 1-3 a year or less (meaning some years don't see freezes). Here in Portland, TX, we have palm trees all over the place. We grow citrus just fine, even banannas grow here in deep S. Texas (ever hear of Valley Banannas??).
So, please disconnect yourself with how much "better" or more "tropical" S. Florida is than S. Texas. See it for what it is. And, for the record, IMHO, S. Florida "borderlines" on tropical, given that it can, and will continue to have freezes here and there.
Ian
The distance is a relative term. You may think it is near but I think it is far from the 18C (64.4F) mark as someone here cited Tampico Mexico is the 18C mark.
When I googled Tampico, wow, it is pretty far from Brownsville. It's about 315 miles driving distance (though not direct fly). To me, it is no where near the tropical zone.
Port Charlotte FL is only 28 miles at an angle (shorter if direct) from Fort Myers FL, I think that's near the tropical zone (Fort Myers FL).
Having said that, if you think 300 miles is near the tropical zone, that's your opinion and I respect that. It's all relative ! Just like someone claimed Houston is tropical, what can I say ?
The distance is a relative term. You may think it is near but I think it is far from the 18C (64.4F) mark as someone here cited Tampico Mexico is the 18C mark.
When I googled Tampico, wow, it is pretty far from Brownsville. It's about 315 miles driving distance (though not direct fly). To me, it is no where near the tropical zone.
Port Charlotte FL is only 28 miles at an angle (shorter if direct) from Fort Myers FL, I think that's near the tropical zone (Fort Myers FL).
Having said that, if you think 300 miles is near the tropical zone, that's your opinion and I respect that. It's all relative ! Just like someone claimed Houston is tropical, what can I say ?
I realize you are going off of Koppen. No mystery there. I am referring more to temperature stats. Really, the "tropical" zone should refer more to places that don't see freezes... EVER. If thats the case, Key West would be the only "tropical" zone in the lower 48. As it stands, Miami and other areas of S. Florida "barely" (if they do at all) make the grade, as it were. And again, I stand by my point, that being that there really isn't that much difference between the two places. I do concur, that S. Florida overall is warmer than S. Texas. But, its also evident that its pretty darn close.
I suppose when you have "fanboyism" going to one place, its hard to see past that. I think that is what is happening here.
Map: If you read the map, you will notice from Brownsville (green in colour) to Tampico (blue colour: Tropical zone) is quite a big distance, no where near the tropical zone. http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi..._World_Map.png
Map: If you read the map, you will notice from Brownsville (green in colour) to Tampico (blue colour: Tropical zone) is quite a big distance, no where near the tropical zone. http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi..._World_Map.png
AGAIN, I am not referring to Koppen, but more of a reality based statement on what most people really refer to "tropical" zone vs "subtropical". Most people don't imagine a tropical paradise having the capability of having a freeze, or even snow (which Miami has both had, multiple times). Therefore, my point stands. Please, unhinge yourself from Koppen for a moment and consider what I said.
The distance is a relative term. You may think it is near but I think it is far from the 18C (64.4F) mark as someone here cited Tampico Mexico is the 18C mark.
When I googled Tampico, wow, it is pretty far from Brownsville. It's about 315 miles driving distance (though not direct fly). To me, it is no where near the tropical zone.
Port Charlotte FL is only 28 miles at an angle (shorter if direct) from Fort Myers FL, I think that's near the tropical zone (Fort Myers FL).
Having said that, if you think 300 miles is near the tropical zone, that's your opinion and I respect that. It's all relative ! Just like someone claimed Houston is tropical, what can I say ?
Like I've said before, the 64.4F mark in Mexico is probably outdated. Brownsville averages 61.2F in January while Corpus Christi averages 57F in January. That's a 4.2 degrees difference in 160 miles, so going by average temperatures alone, the 64.4F mark is probably only a bit more then 100 miles south of the border. Tampico is more of a transition zone between the "deeper tropics" of Mexico and the more transitional tropical climate.
I realize you are going off of Kapplan. No mystery there. I am referring more to temperature stats. Really, the "tropical" zone should refer more to places that don't see freezes... EVER. If thats the case, Key West would be the only "tropical" zone in the lower 48. As it stands, Miami and other areas of S. Florida "barely" (if they do at all) make the grade, as it were. And again, I stand by my point, that being that there really isn't that much difference between the two places. I do concur, that S. Florida overall is warmer than S. Texas. But, its also evident that its pretty darn close.
I suppose when you have "fanboyism" going to one place, its hard to see past that. I think that is what is happening here.
Ian
Well, I think that you are shuffling words into my mouth !
I was just listing what Koppen's classified as tropical and sub tropical, that's all !
In your case, if the world recognised your "new definition" that ""tropical" zone should refer more to places that don't see freezes... EVER", then we will follow; But for now, I will and I believe most people will follow Koppen's climate classification: Monthly average temperature 18C (64.4F) or above, all 12 months.
Well, I think that you are shuffling words into my mouth !
I was just listing what Koppen's classified as tropical and sub tropical, that's all !
In your case, if the world recognised your "new definition" that ""tropical" zone should refer more to places that don't see freezes... EVER", then we will follow; But for now, I will and I believe most people will follow Koppen's climate classification: Monthly average temperature 18C (64.4F) or above, all 12 months.
I will tell you what. Take it to the street. Just ask people, all over, just normal "joes", and see what they think. I bet they have never even HEARD of Koppen. I would be willing to wager a bet, their thinking of "tropical" would be more in line with what I have been saying.
Go ahead, try it. Make it a scientific study. Publish it, for all I care.
Ian
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