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I assume fog must be very rare on the US east coast in order to permit such high sunshine totals?
In prone locations, if winds are light or calm, freezing fog/fog or low cloud is pretty much guaranteed here in england during winter, so even if high pressure is overhead, it will still often not be sunny.
Although fog is more common along the USA West Coast than the East Coast...fog is not uncommon along the East Coast once you reach New England. Most coastal stations from Florida to southern New Jersey average about 30 days with fog. However, from Massachusetts northward to Canada many stations average 60 days with fog = about the same as many stations along the West Coast.
Location: The western periphery of Terra Australis
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Yes NYC is sunnier than a lot of people think. I think the Atlantic coast from Boston to Miami is sunny as it is dominated by the Bermuda high a lot of the year. The inland northeast, say Pittsburgh or Buffalo, however, seem considerably cloudier than the coastal Northeast, especially in the winter months.
All-time record highest sunshine totals for winter months averaged over England and Wales (individual sites will have had higher totals, but I wouldn't know where to look for individual records):
Yes, compared to my part of western Europe NYC is ridiculously, unimaginably sunny! Only our national record-high May-August totals beat the NYC averages and even then it's not by much (in % terms of total possible sun allowing for our longer summer days I suspect our records might actually be slightly behind). One individual record which I do know is that the all-time sunniest month anywhere in England was 383.9 hours at Eastbourne in July 1911 - a highly impressive total IMO for its location, and a record I expect to stand for a very long time. Does anyone know the all-time sunniest month in NYC?
I could say the same about London. If we had your Jan avg temps of 46/36F, it would be a record breaking warm January here. That would be around 8.5F above normal. It would feel incredibly mild. Let's swap. I'll give you our Jan sunshine averages for your temps.
Yes NYC is sunnier than a lot of people think. I think the Atlantic coast from Boston to Miami is sunny as it is dominated by the Bermuda high a lot of the year. The inland northeast, say Pittsburgh or Buffalo, however, seem considerably cloudier than the coastal Northeast, especially in the winter months.
In a geographic sense – stations like Buffalo and even Pittsburgh are really in the Great Lakes. The “inland Northeast” – meaning cities/towns west of the big cities , but east of the Appalachian Mountains….are still much less cloudy in winter than stations on or very near the Lakes.
From what I understand this is because the average storm track in the cold season (November to March) passes over/or near the Great Lakes. In a way, this is like the way storms on the Pacific coast of the USA are often directed as the Pacific Northwest rather than California, creating the often cloudy conditions of the PNW. The Great Lakes really has only about 4 months (June through Sept) that have stable weather.
Yes NYC is sunnier than a lot of people think. I think the Atlantic coast from Boston to Miami is sunny as it is dominated by the Bermuda high a lot of the year. The inland northeast, say Pittsburgh or Buffalo, however, seem considerably cloudier than the coastal Northeast, especially in the winter months.
I lived in Philly and now live in Pittsburgh and I can tell that Philly is sunnier in the winter. The rest of the year is pretty similar if not the same for sunshine between the 2 cities. This week in Pittsburgh seems pretty sunny for its normal January standards.
Unfortunately, 5 days of sun in a row aren't really typical in the winter here. Fall and Spring? Sometimes yes, sometimes no. Summer? Definitely typical
In a geographic sense – stations like Buffalo and even Pittsburgh are really in the Great Lakes. The “inland Northeast” – meaning cities/towns west of the big cities , but east of the Appalachian Mountains….are still much less cloudy in winter than stations on or very near the Lakes.
From what I understand this is because the average storm track in the cold season (November to March) passes over/or near the Great Lakes. In a way, this is like the way storms on the Pacific coast of the USA are often directed as the Pacific Northwest rather than California, creating the often cloudy conditions of the PNW. The Great Lakes really has only about 4 months (June through Sept) that have stable weather.
Yes, very true! We sometimes can get long stretches of cloudy and "mostly" cloudy days depending on that storm track. This affects a lot of Ohio and Upstate New Year and even as far east as Binghamton, NY and Scranton, PA.
This is the typical day from November - March: Cloudy - Pittsburgh, Buffalo, Syracuse, Cleveland, Western Mass, parts of NH, VT
Cloudy & Mostly Cloudy - Scranton, Binghamton, Albany, Elmira, parts of the Poconos and the Catskills
Yes, very true! We sometimes can get long stretches of cloudy and "mostly" cloudy days depending on that storm track. This affects a lot of Ohio and Upstate New Year and even as far east as Binghamton, NY and Scranton, PA.
This is the typical day from November - March: Cloudy - Pittsburgh, Buffalo, Syracuse, Cleveland, Western Mass, parts of NH, VT
Cloudy & Mostly Cloudy - Scranton, Binghamton, Albany, Elmira, parts of the Poconos and the Catskills
Western Mass is sunnier than Albany, let along Binghamton. I'd say Western Mass is closest to the coastal category.
The coastal category averages above 50% sunshine in the winter, mostly cloudy is a poor description. All the cloudy places listed are still quite a bit sunnier than the UK in the winter.
Western Mass is sunnier than Albany, let along Binghamton. I'd say Western Mass is closest to the coastal category.
The coastal category averages above 50% sunshine in the winter, mostly cloudy is a poor description. All the cloudy places listed are still quite a bit sunnier than the UK in the winter.
It's true the NE is sunnier than the UK in the winter. When I mean mostly cloudy there's still some sun but not enough to be classified as partly cloudy. Anyways, all the areas in the NE outside the coastal areas receives less than 50% sunshine in the winter with varying degrees of cloudiness (e.g. Binghamton is a little bit sunnier than Buffalo, but much cloudier than NYC).
Location: The western periphery of Terra Australis
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wavehunter007
In a geographic sense – stations like Buffalo and even Pittsburgh are really in the Great Lakes. The “inland Northeast” – meaning cities/towns west of the big cities , but east of the Appalachian Mountains….are still much less cloudy in winter than stations on or very near the Lakes.
From what I understand this is because the average storm track in the cold season (November to March) passes over/or near the Great Lakes. In a way, this is like the way storms on the Pacific coast of the USA are often directed as the Pacific Northwest rather than California, creating the often cloudy conditions of the PNW. The Great Lakes really has only about 4 months (June through Sept) that have stable weather.
I find this kind of unusual, where do these storms originate? The type of temperate latitude storms I'm familiar with tend to move from west to east, yet west of the Great Lakes is a continental zone thousands of miles from the Pacific. Are some of these storms Atlantic in origin?
I find this kind of unusual, where do these storms originate? The type of temperate latitude storms I'm familiar with tend to move from west to east, yet west of the Great Lakes is a continental zone thousands of miles from the Pacific. Are some of these storms Atlantic in origin?
Most of the storm that effect the USA have their origin in the Pacific Ocean.
Very few storms that effect the USA originate in the Gulf of Mexico or the Atlantic Ocean. Once in a while in the cold season (Nov - March), if the jet stream takes a big dive southward, a storm or low might develop in the Gulf of Mexico or Atlantic and move in a northeastward track - and even then, only the far eastern states are effected (in winter these are the storms that can bring heavy snow to the New England area). Outside of these cool season storms/lows...any storm that enters the USA from the Gulf or Atlantic are tropical in origin (weak tropical low/thunder squalls in summer/tropical storm...etc).
As storms move across the USA from west to east, they move into several preferred areas where they strengthen (some weaken, of course). The reason for the high number of cloudy days in the Great Lakes is, that like the PNW, it is a center of middle latitude storm tracks. Most of the storm tracks pass over or near the Great Lakes...and as one moves eastward and especially southward, lows/storms are fewer. Of course, as you said, the subtropical anticyclone (Bermuda High), also plays a role helping deflect many (not all of course), low pressure centers on a northeast track. On the East Coast, the further one moves south, the less and less they are effected by the main mid latitude storm track, and the more high pressure and stable weather prevails. This is why on the map of sun hours...the numbers increase as you move southward and eastward from the upper Ohio Valley toward the southeast
Of course, in the warm season (May to October)....far fewer lows/storms develop and move from west to east across the USA. In fact, the storms can even drop off in the cold season. That's one of the reasons that this has been a mild winter for people in the northern USA so far, there have been few storms that have moved from west to east and brought down cold air on their west sides.
This is the map of storm tracks, and how they converge in the Great Lakes.
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Last edited by wavehunter007; 01-06-2012 at 08:48 AM..
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