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Old 09-05-2007, 08:51 PM
 
Location: Seattle area
7,791 posts, read 10,018,379 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Synopsis View Post
The record is not for consecutive days, it's all of the days this year if I understand it correctly.
you are right. I didn't read carefully
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Old 09-09-2007, 07:27 PM
 
Location: East Central Phoenix
6,731 posts, read 9,836,258 times
Reputation: 7904
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheHarvester View Post
If I lived in Phoenix and I saw that on the local forecast, I'd probably shoot my TV.
I should clarify that they don't say how beautiful the weather is during the summer here ... I think they know better than that. But during the winter when it's warmer than normal or drier than it should be, you'll hear them boasting about how our weather is "perfect". It may be sunny, but the cloud of pollution hangs over the Valley when we get continuous days or weeks without any rain. I sure don't call that "perfect weather"!

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheHarvester View Post
Humidity is much higher now because of irrigation, which helps explain warmer nights but not warmer days.
Actually, the humidity is slightly LOWER now than it was 20 or 30 years ago. And less than 10% of Phoenix uses irrigation. In fact, many new developments are discouraging grass lawns. In the past 10 years or so, the push has been toward ROCK lawns ... which are UGLY, and add to the heat. The ongoing sprawl is the cause of the increase in night time temps, and I also believe that hotter nights have a way of increasing afternoon high temps.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheHarvester View Post
But I've got one question for people living in Phoenix --- can you seriously say that it's not too hot every summer? It's a freaking low desert with average highs over 100 for a couple months out of the year. Add a few degrees and what do you get? More Phoenix. So... if ya chose to live there, then ya gotta look at your decision process.
Honestly, it never used to be this hot continuously. I remember June used to be a relatively pleasant month despite the hot days because it would rapidly cool down at night because of the dry air. July & August have always been the most uncomfortable months, but there was a time when we used to get thundershowers on a regular basis to cool things off a little. Now, most of those monsoon storms go around the Phoenix area.

I was born & raised here, so I know how things have changed ... some for the better, and others for the worse. The sprawl is one thing I wish would stop because there is evidence that it's making the place even hotter & somewhat drier than average.
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Old 09-09-2007, 08:17 PM
 
Location: Austin, TX
1,231 posts, read 3,534,328 times
Reputation: 396
Quote:
Originally Posted by Valley Native View Post
Actually, the humidity is slightly LOWER now than it was 20 or 30 years ago. And less than 10% of Phoenix uses irrigation.
Interesting. This is reliable info? I confess my info is from memory and at least 10 years old, so it's probably more like 15 years old... I shouldn't be "publishing" out of date info on here, eh?

But are you sure about that? Average humidity is lower than it used to be? The only explanation I can think of for that, aside from a climate fluctuation, would be a dramatic reduction in irrigation. Given that the population has grown tremendously and there are many more golf courses, I would have expected humidity to be going up, not down, even with water conservation.

Do you have a source for that? I'm a weather nut and would like to read more about it. Thanks!
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Old 09-10-2007, 10:42 PM
 
Location: East Central Phoenix
6,731 posts, read 9,836,258 times
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Harvester, here's something worth reading. It took a little digging on my part, but I found an article that was written by some climatologists who did some research on humidity & dew points in Phoenix:

Quote:
THE MYTH OF INCREASING MOISTURE LEVELS IN PHOENIX

By Robert C. Balling, Jr., and Sandra W. Brazel
Office of Climatology, Arizona State University

Is Phoenix becoming more humid? Many local residents believe that irrigated landscaping, swimming pools, and lakes and canals in new housing developments around the city are forcing moisture levels noticeably upward. However, many scientists have shown that cities usually act to decrease moisture levels in the atmosphere. This is caused by (a) paved surfaces that store little moisture and force rapid runoff following a rain event and (b) increased temperature in the "urban heat island".

Despite local interest in atmosphere moisture trends in the valley, surprisingly little scientific research has directly addressed this issue.

We decided to examine the Phoenix, Arizona, weather records from 1896-1984 to see if there has been a change in the humidity of the Phoenix urban area. We chose relative humidity and dew point temperatures for statistical analysis. The dew point temperature is a better indicator of the amount of moisture in the air, which is the major contributor to human discomfort.

Since Arizona has a distinct two season rainfall pattern (a monsoon season, July through September and a winter season, December through April), we chose the months of May, June, October, and November for analysis. These transition months should be the least affected by large-scale weather disturbances since they are in between the precipitation seasons. Thus any urban effect on humidity should be clearly evident.

We chose six different relatively sophisticated statistical techniques to analyze the time series patterns in the atmospheric moisture data. These techniques basically search for "climatic signals" that may be contained in the "noisy" variance patterns in our data. These statistical procedures allow us to make conclusions regarding any trends, cycles, or discontinuities in the moisture records.

The results for the dew points were somewhat surprising. In May, October, and November, our statistical procedures indicated that the variations in the data were random; however, some form of non-random variation appeared to exist in the June dew points. Our analyses showed that trend was not the source of non-random inter-annual variation in June (or any other month). The systematic variations in June were found to be related in several significant cycles in the data. One cycle showed a maximum occurring in 1943, and a minimum 1898. This important cycle shows that we are presently heading towards another minimum projected for 1987. Another cyclical pattern showed maxima in 1917 and 1962, and minima in 1939 and 1984. Clearly dew points are not rising in Phoenix.

Given the steady or falling dew points, and assuming the highly probable occurrence of some urban heat island effects (higher temperatures in the city), the relative humidity values should display decreasing levels, again contrary to popular opinion. All of our statistics from each month indicated a strong downward trend in the relative humidity levels. The levels display a peak in the 1920s and a pronounced minimum in the 1970s and 1980s. So we have concluded that while increases in irrigated and sprinkled areas and open water surfaces may have occurred in the growing Phoenix area, many other effects of urbanization have apparently produced an overriding, counteracting impact on the atmospheric moisture levels.


AVERAGE TEMPERATURE and RELATIVE HUMIDITY BY FIVE-YEAR PERIODS
1896-1995

5-Year Interval Temperature Relative Humidity

1896-1900 69.8 38

1901-1905 70.1 39

1906-1910 69.7 44

1911-1915 68.9 44

1916-1920 68.9 48

1921-1925 70.2 44

1926-1930 70.9 41

1931-1935 71.8 40

1956-1960 71.3 40

1936-1940 71.9 47

1941-1945 70.5 41

1946-1950 71.3 43

1951-1955 71.0 41

1961-1965 69.6 38

1966-1970 70.7 40

1971-1975 71.8 35

1976-1980 73.5 46

1981-1985 74.3 39

1986-1990 75.8 34

1991-1995 74.6 37

These values of relative humidity are averages of the five years. The yearly averages are based on the averages of the twelve months. The monthly averages are based on daily values taken at 5 a.m. and 5 p.m.

These data also show high values in the 1910s and 1920s and low values in the 1970s and 1980s. This is in good agreement with the above research project.

It again points out that with urbanization, more buildings of all kinds, more paved surfaces and the heat island effect, the relative humidity decreases.
Source: CLIMATE OF PHOENIX: PART 1
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Old 09-10-2007, 11:30 PM
 
Location: Austin, TX
1,231 posts, read 3,534,328 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Valley Native View Post
Harvester, here's something worth reading.
THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU!!!

Interesting information. The relative humidity isn't as useful as the dewpoint, though. For example, the highest period of RH corresponds with the lowest average temperatures, which doesn't indicate much. I could look at a table and compute the dewpoints to try to tabulate the actual amount of water in the air, but I can see enough contrary evidence by glancing at that table to see that dewpoint averages aren't showing any particular trend. They seem to be slightly erratic and probably correlate more strongly with oscillations in Pacific currents along with El Nino and La Nina.
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Old 09-12-2007, 10:37 AM
 
1 posts, read 2,295 times
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Default No way it hasn't changed

I have been living in Phoenix since 77 when in the evening in June it was cool and during the monsoon July and August we had a lot of rainstorms and cooled things down in the evening. That pretty much was the way it was up until the late 80's and for sure in the early 90's. The fact that houses are built within 6 feet of each other, developers putting in lakes where it was the desert, more concrete and blacktop there is no way anyone could tell me there hasn't been a change. I love AZ October thru May but the otehr 4 months I have been promising myself for the past 30 years that I am leaving during that period but it hasn't come to happen yet. But I'm working on it. Interesting forum...
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Old 09-12-2007, 12:19 PM
 
Location: Austin, TX
1,231 posts, read 3,534,328 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joetcb View Post
I love AZ October thru May but the otehr 4 months I have been promising myself for the past 30 years that I am leaving during that period but it hasn't come to happen yet.
I feel exactly the same about living in Texas. It's wonderful for 8 months, but there are about 4 months that are tough to get through. If I could afford it, I'd have a place near Seattle for those 4 months.
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Old 09-29-2007, 01:37 AM
 
Location: FL
1,318 posts, read 5,516,337 times
Reputation: 965
Thumbs up Lucky you!!!!!!!!!

Stop rubbing it in!!!! You guys ALMOST have the best weather!!! We have you beat though cause of our humidity - when it's 100 there it'll be real feel 95, while we'll have 90 real feel 98... Also our winter is waaaay warmer. Especially our lows!
And, oh - to all you WIMPS who can't take the heat & continue to whine about it - MOVE!!!!
WHY ARE YOU LIVING THERE???!!!
I'd like to take all the whiners from Phoenix & Miami & ship them to all the freezing places & let all those poor people who WISH they could be in a nice year round climate come on down!!!
Appreciate what you gots, & if ya don't likes it - MOVE!!!
You moved THERE (nobody's from there ) didn't ya?
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Old 09-29-2007, 12:02 PM
 
Location: Perth, Western Australia
9,594 posts, read 25,227,519 times
Reputation: 3584
Quote:
Originally Posted by elfyum View Post
.
And, oh - to all you WIMPS who can't take the heat & continue to whine about it - MOVE!!!!
WHY ARE YOU LIVING THERE???!!!

You moved THERE (nobody's from there ) didn't ya?
What if they can't move somewhere cooler without immigrating...

Actually, most of the people I've heard from on City-Data who hate heat/warmth didn't move there, but grew there.
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Old 09-29-2007, 01:46 PM
 
Location: So. Dak.
13,495 posts, read 35,112,178 times
Reputation: 15171
Yea, unfortunately until things change in our government, people like CC will be stuck in the cold. I wish I could fix that.

There's also circumstances that a few of us have. My specific situation is that DH will not be able to leave his employment until March, 2008. Also, some of the areas with the nicest climate (warm is nice for me) can be extremely expensive.
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