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View Poll Results: What climate do you prefer?
Sydney, Australia 52 61.90%
Atlanta, Georgia, USA 32 38.10%
Voters: 84. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 02-06-2012, 11:54 AM
 
Location: Mid Atlantic USA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dunno what to put here View Post
Isn't it quite mild in Philadelphia this winter though?

Yeah, our avg high/low was 45/29 for Jan. That is below Atlanta's normal winter. So I would think the grass there (if it were the same as ours here) would be even greener.

That being said, the grass here never turns completely brown unless we have an all out brutal arctic winter, which occurs once every ten years or so. We also have lots of evergreen bushes and shrubs which stay green all winter whether or not it is above or below normal. Jan was 4.9F above normal. Some years we have mild winters some not. Our std deviation in winter is much higher than yours. 4.9F above normal is not record breaking.
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Old 02-06-2012, 11:58 AM
 
Location: Mid Atlantic USA
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I have noticed lawns that are completely brown in winter, but they are some sort of zoisa (?) grass I think that browns with the first frost, but does really well in the summer and stays lush green. I've seen that scattered about the burbs here. I don't like it though.
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Old 02-07-2012, 05:14 AM
 
Location: Laurentia
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I will start off by saying that having any kind of greenery or plant growth in Winter is a surefire sign of it being pathetically warm as far as my preferences go. Also I'd hardly consider a Winter cold enough to turn the grass brown to be a brutal, arctic Winter, at least from the cold alone; all that means is that you're getting an actual Winter (of course I respect that this is colder than usual for your area and that cold is but one of three aspects of Winter).

Unless your lawn is manicured, in Eastern North America (where I have experience perusing lawns), grass types vary between regions and a given yard will be heterogeneous, containing different varieties of grass. Hardiness varies, with some types going dormant as soon as frost coats them and others sticking it out unless there is a sustained hard-freeze period. Naturally the less-hardy varieties will go brown sooner and in warmer conditions than the hardier varieties, often, in a normal winter, leading to a variation where some yards can be (mostly) brown and others can be (mostly) green. Warmer Winters will be greener and colder Winters will be browner, with the coldest Winters causing all the grass varieties to go dormant. This leads to a brown landscape. Of course the brown landscape doesn't take into account snow cover, which will usually be a feature if you have a cold Winter.
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Old 02-07-2012, 06:05 AM
 
Location: Leeds, UK
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There's green grass here right now but also plenty of snow and ice
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Old 02-07-2012, 06:30 AM
 
Location: Yorkshire, England
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^^ Same here, apart from when it sometimes gets waterlogged and muddy I've never actually seen our grass in winter to be anything other than lush green, even after a few weeks of snowcover/freezing weather.
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Old 02-07-2012, 06:50 AM
 
Location: Leeds, UK
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The only time I have ever seen the grass be anything other then green is in summer during prolonged dry/hot periods.
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Old 02-07-2012, 08:29 AM
nei nei won $500 in our forum's Most Engaging Poster Contest - Thirteenth Edition (Jan-Feb 2015). 

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Location: NYC
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wavehunter007 View Post
Too be honest, I was not really attempting to make a point about which types of climates are “better” so to speak. Like the never ending cold vs warm debates it seems truly pointless. I readily admit – I like warm to hot climates. A mean temperature of below 70 F/21 C is not summer to me and I’m sure I would not last long in a climate where no months of the year have a mean temp of 70 F (Melbourne, Auckland, Cape Town, Seattle…etc). For me, my preference of a “good or proper hot season “ starts with a mean temp of 72 F/22 C and goes up to maybe 79 or 80 F (27 C). To me, Atlanta distribution of warmth is anything but wasted –it’s highly desirable.

My point was that when you compare THE WARM SEASONS in both Melbourne and even Sydney to Atlanta….by May (the start of the warm season) Atlanta with a mean temp (70 F ) that is warmer than Melbourne will get even at the absolute height of their respective summer (67 F)…and just 1 F less than Sydney (71 F) at the height of their summer. The three (3) warmest months in Melbourne struggle to even reach the middle/upper 60 ‘s F. For me, many of these types of climates (Melbourne, Auckland, Cape Town…etc) yes them have semi-mild winters and fewer frosts – but the trade off is just too much in terms of warmth. As I said above I draw a hard line a monthly mean temp of 70 F. If a climate can’t produce at least a few months of 70 F mean temps…I have little interest in it.
Yea, it was confusing to me since your idea of what's needed for a climate for a climate to be warm is very different from mine, especially since I consider myself a warm-weather person. And as I've said, I've lived in climates with similar to averages to Melbourne, in Upstate NY, and I never felt anything to object about the warmth of the warmest months, in fact I loved them. It was the other months that really bothered me.

It's obvious that Melbourne and Sydney are much cooler in the summer than Atlanta, but that doesn't necessarily make them cooler overall, and you had an undue focus on the warmer months. The choice is how much seasonal range one prefers. Melbourne is cooler than Atlanta, but Raleigh, North Carolina has about the same average as Melbourne, and it's slightly closer to the equator than Melbourne is.

For myself, I'd probably take Atlanta over Melbourne, but Sydney over Atlanta.


Quote:
Although I think one does acclimate to SST – I agree lower 70’s in pretty cold. I used to think that lower 70’s were fine for SST when I grew up in the Tri-State area, the beaches on Long Island, NJ/CT/RI would have low 70’s SST and I just got used to it I guess. Then in our late teen/early twenties when we got out license, we always headed down to Hilton Head, Myrtle Beach, and Daytona Beach…etc and 80 F was the standard. Now, between southern Florida and trips to the Caribbean, 82 – 83 F is what I look for in terms of comfortable SST. I don’t think I could swim in 70 F SST even if I wanted too (lol).
I don't know if I've ever swam in 80 degree water. Long Island often gets to mid 70s SST in hotter summers, at least around August to early September. Usually not too bad. The problem with high SSTs, is that are usually associated with high dew points. I don't know if there's anyway to escape that. You'll have to live with the sticky weather the rest of the time you're not at the beach. I'm not sure 80°F beach water would be worth it for me, for example dealing with very sweaty bicycling, but maybe I could mentally make the hottest months of the year in my mind only good for swimming since the warm season would longer than what I'm used to in the Northeast, and there would be more months for other outdoor activities.

Also, if you're interested in swimming in rivers or lakes, you don't know need to very hot weather to get warm water temperatures. A couple months averaging around 70°F in upstate NY was enough to turn water not in shade to bathtub like temperatures.
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Old 02-07-2012, 10:19 AM
 
Location: USA East Coast
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nei View Post
Yea, it was confusing to me since your idea of what's needed for a climate for a climate to be warm is very different from mine, especially since I consider myself a warm-weather person. And as I've said, I've lived in climates with similar to averages to Melbourne, in Upstate NY, and I never felt anything to object about the warmth of the warmest months, in fact I loved them. It was the other months that really bothered me.

It's obvious that Melbourne and Sydney are much cooler in the summer than Atlanta, but that doesn't necessarily make them cooler overall, and you had an undue focus on the warmer months. The choice is how much seasonal range one prefers. Melbourne is cooler than Atlanta, but Raleigh, North Carolina has about the same average as Melbourne, and it's slightly closer to the equator than Melbourne is.

For myself, I'd probably take Atlanta over Melbourne, but Sydney over Atlanta.




I don't know if I've ever swam in 80 degree water. Long Island often gets to mid 70s SST in hotter summers, at least around August to early September. Usually not too bad. The problem with high SSTs, is that are usually associated with high dew points. I don't know if there's anyway to escape that. You'll have to live with the sticky weather the rest of the time you're not at the beach. I'm not sure 80°F beach water would be worth it for me, for example dealing with very sweaty bicycling, but maybe I could mentally make the hottest months of the year in my mind only good for swimming since the warm season would longer than what I'm used to in the Northeast, and there would be more months for other outdoor activities.

Also, if you're interested in swimming in rivers or lakes, you don't know need to very hot weather to get warm water temperatures. A couple months averaging around 70°F in upstate NY was enough to turn water not in shade to bathtub like temperatures.
No doubt that we all have different thresholds to comfort and sensible weather: Living in Upstate NY and Massachusetts, of course you would acclimate to cooler summers. I’m sure you realize that most of the USA has hotter summers (some places MUCH hotter) than you’re used to. For myself - to be really honest, with the exception of being in the Southwestern deserts (Palm Springs Twenty-nine Palms, CA) in summer (115 F heat)…I can’t honestly say I’ve ever been too warm/hot. I lived in Florida and even the three hottest summer months (J/J/A)…I loved the warmth. There is a “rhythm” you get into in climates that have a long warm/hot season that I love and I get used to that’s hard to explain to someone who has never experencied it. One aspect at least - is it must be truly warm enough to get into this mode: For me, that would be tough to do in a climate that never sees at least a few months with 70 F/21 C mean temps.

That would be my issue with not only Melbourne, but many southern Hemisphere climates (Auckland, Wellington, Sydney (maybe), Hobart, Cape Town, …etc)…there is just no real sense of a long warm/hot season. My point was that Atlanta has a mean temp of 61 F and Melbourne has a mean temp of 58 F…so it seems like Melbourne is not much cooler than Atlanta. But when you look at the monthly mean temps of both cities side by side it really sticks out there is little warmth annually in Melbourne compared to Atlanta. In terms of Southern Hemisphere climates – I might take a station like Perth, Brisbane, Coffs Harbour over Atlanta – but I would never pick Melbourne or Sydney over Atlanta. They are just don’t have enough real warmth for me.

As far as SST – again I think acclimation plays a big role. You don’t sound like you have been in oceans much south of NY/New England. In this regard - I’m the total opposite of you: I love the feeling of warm seas, warm temps, and high dew point tropical air – that’s why I head to the Caribbean any time I can!. A south swell, 84 F SST, 87 F air temps, and a DP of 74 F is as good as it gets – lol. I’m on “island time” when that happens.
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Old 02-07-2012, 11:16 AM
nei nei won $500 in our forum's Most Engaging Poster Contest - Thirteenth Edition (Jan-Feb 2015). 

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Location: NYC
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wavehunter007 View Post
No doubt that we all have different thresholds to comfort and sensible weather: Living in Upstate NY and Massachusetts, of course you would acclimate to cooler summers. I’m sure you realize that most of the USA has hotter summers (some places MUCH hotter) than you’re used to.
Of course, much of the US has hot summers. Why use the USA as a standard? If you go by other temperate latitude standards, such as European or Australian standards, Upstate NY and Massachusetts has warm-ish summers.

I spent most of my life (and grew up) in Long Island. There's not really anything to acclimate to, other than find the heat waves less intense and more comfortable to live without air conditioning, at the cost of occasionally wearing a sweater or being unable to wear shorts and a T-shirt late at night or in the morning. The summer temperatures are still comfortable, and much less whining about heat and less constant A/C use compared to further south, especially places like DC. Long Island has an issue of warmer summer nights, making it harder for a house to cool without A/C. Do you use A/C? I haven't and prefer not to if possible. The winters up here and in upstate NY were a big shock, especially the shorter growing season. A mean temperature in the high 60s isn't uncomfortable, just cooler than what people from hotter climates are used to.


Quote:
For myself - to be really honest, with the exception of being in the Southwestern deserts (Palm Springs Twenty-nine Palms, CA) in summer (115 F heat)…I can’t honestly say I’ve ever been too warm/hot. I lived in Florida and even the three hottest summer months (J/J/A)…I loved the warmth. There is a “rhythm” you get into in climates that have a long warm/hot season that I love and I get used to that’s hard to explain to someone who has never experienced it. One aspect at least - is it must be truly warm enough to get into this mode: For me, that would be tough to do in a climate that never sees at least a few months with 70 F/21 C mean temps.
There is a mode I get into on really hot days (probably equivalent to normal southern days) that I enjoy. My issue is that summer is the time I'm most physically active, and the heat could become a bit of nuisance. Also, the high dew points and heat often combine to form an ugly haze.

Quote:
My point was that Atlanta has a mean temp of 61 F and Melbourne has a mean temp of 58 F…so it seems like Melbourne is not much cooler than Atlanta. But when you look at the monthly mean temps of both cities side by side it really sticks out there is little warmth annually in Melbourne compared to Atlanta.
Little warmth for your standards. For mine, both have about the same because my threshold is lower. Also, Melbourne's mean temperature is 60.6°F, Atlanta is 62.7°F.

Quote:
As far as SST – again I think acclimation plays a big role. You don’t sound like you have been in oceans much south of NY/New England. In this regard - I’m the total opposite of you: I love the feeling of warm seas, warm temps, and high dew point tropical air – that’s why I head to the Caribbean any time I can!. A south swell, 84 F SST, 87 F air temps, and a DP of 74 F is as good as it gets – lol. I’m on “island time” when that happens.
Other than Atlantic City, I haven't been in any ocean south of Long Island (never been on an New England beach, really just Long Island) since I was 6. I guess I should make a trip out there sometime.
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Old 02-07-2012, 11:19 AM
 
Location: New York City
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Have to say that 80+F SST sounds to me like it would make for really sticky/sweaty weather. Which is fine if you are on vacation but it is another thing when you have to go to work or go about your day to day stuff.
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