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View Poll Results: What climate do you prefer?
Sydney, Australia 52 61.90%
Atlanta, Georgia, USA 32 38.10%
Voters: 84. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 02-02-2012, 07:30 PM
nei nei won $500 in our forum's Most Engaging Poster Contest - Thirteenth Edition (Jan-Feb 2015). 

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Location: NYC
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Hmm. Sydney is nowhere as bad as the record highs suggest then.
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Old 02-02-2012, 10:33 PM
 
Location: Melbourne AUS
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yeah yeah yeah we get it already wavehunter, Australia is very cold compared to anywhere in the USA blah blah blaaahhhhhhh


Quote:
Originally Posted by wavehunter007 View Post
I think you might have missed the point

YOU said palms would not survive in Atlanta (not me)…which is clearly an error based on the facts. Palms DO survive in Atlanta.
No, what I am saying is that NOT MANY VARIETIES of palms would survive in Atlanta... and with a record low of -22C hard frosts are always a risk which will kill alot of them anyway.



Quote:
Another error (I think)… if by saying “those palms would thrive thrive in either Sydney or Melbourne” (the ones pictured above) is also incorrect: At least two of the palms in the picture above are Sabal Palmetto – they need very hot summers to grow large and have a full canopy. Sydney and especially Melbourne are far too cold in summer for Sable Palmetto to do well in those locations. Sabal "might" survive in Melbourne…but they would never thrive.
ppfffffffffffffffffffffffffftt

Atlanta is MUCH COLDER in winter than either Sydney or Melbourne, plus the latter two's summers are far from being "far too cold" what a pathetic statement , this is not Dublin where talking about here. So then, HOW THE HELL can those palms survive in Atlanta but not in Syd or Melb????



Quote:
Folks who live in cool climates like Sydney and Melbourne love to use "records" when they talk about their climates compared to others, it makes them seem warmer - lol. It hits 90 F (or higher) 30 to 45 days a year in Atlanta on average...and 90 days a year in southern Georgia on average hit 90 F or higher. What are the average number of 90 F days in Melbourne each summer - lol.
Cool climates my ass. So, Atlanta has a record low of -22C, winters which are much colder with vastly more days under freezing, but according to you Melb and Syd are "cool"? Yeah.....we might see a frost twice a year if we're lucky. In Melbourne it hits 90F about 25-30 times a year so not a HUGE difference to blistering hot Atlanta. And we're talking about Atlanta here, not southern Georgia so don't try to use irrelevant data to bang up your superiority complex. But one thing is for sure, ATLANTA GETS VASTLY MORE FROSTS AND MUCH LOWER WINTER TEMPS. - LOL


Quote:
I know you think that Australia is so mild…but compared to many locations like Atlanta you have a lot of cool weather.
I know I think Australia is mild BECAUSE IT IS MILD. It's funny you say that, considering Atlanta has colder winters with frosts and always the threat of hard frosts down to -22C... LOL


Quote:
Originally Posted by wavehunter007 View Post

My point is more that while I find it interesting that palms grow in temperate latitudes, but that doesn’t make temperate climates somehow “warm or subtropical”. Palms seem to be growing everywhere in temperate latitudes/climates, Vancouver, NYC, London, Washington, DC, Paris, Melbourne...etc -lol. In fact, on the coastal margins at least, show me a climate that at least someone is not growing palms from 40 latitide North or south? Is cold the factor or heat?
You are comparing Melbourne to cities with much colder winters yet again. Palms of any kind would be much better off in Melbourne than any of those places you listed.... and the only palms found in these locations are a tiny number of relatively small and stubby cold hardy varieties. No date palms there mate. Did you know - the QUEEN PALM is a favourite landscaping tree here, and is seen in many backyards in Melbourne. Guess what - it's a subtropical tree native to Brazil and northern Argentina and is very commonly found in FLORIDA! So clearly, Melbourne is warm enough to support this subtropical plant.

btw, here's a scene from Melbourne. Won't see this in Atlanta or Paris - LOL







Quote:
Both Miami and San Diego have very few frosts – yet coconut palms thrive in Miami and die a quick and ugly death in San Diego. I have been told that many tropical plants require HEAT to do well. So I think there is more to this issue than simply record lows or winter lows. Sydney is on the line – but Melbourne is a cool and cloudy climate compared to hot and sunny Atlanta. The monthly mean temps prove that.
Yet more tripe. If tropical plants need HEAT to do well, then you can forget about growing them in Atlanta.... and before you say anything, both Melbourne and Sydney get hot days and have typically warm enough summers without the harsh winters to support several species of palms. - LOL

Last edited by Flight Simmer; 02-02-2012 at 11:01 PM..
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Old 02-02-2012, 10:53 PM
 
Location: New Jersey
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It was mentioned before, but it is important to note that Atlanta averages 40 days with a minimum temperature below freezing. About 2 days per year fail to reach freezing. This year the lowest minimum was 21 F and the lowest maximum was 33 F.

A below average winter in Atlanta is far more damaging than a below average winter in Sydney.
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Old 02-02-2012, 11:32 PM
 
Location: Newcastle NSW Australia
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stumbler. View Post
Sydney has impressive record highs far from it's normal, even though it's not arid/desert and in fact wetter than Atlanta.

I wonder on how many days, Sydney gets temperatures hotter than Atlanta's averages (such as in the 30s C)?

Perhaps they only happen rarely each summer?
Sydney gets only 15 days a year over 30C , which is quite low.
There were 7 consecutive days last summer over 30C (late Jan-early Feb) -which was a record for Sydney - this would happen every summer in places like Perth or Adelaide - and I would imagine in Atlanta as well.
By contrast places in the outer western suburbs of Sydney can get over 60 such days over 30C, so coastal Sydney is not totally representative of what one may experience.
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Old 02-02-2012, 11:40 PM
 
Location: Mid Atlantic USA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flight Simmer View Post
In Melbourne it hits 90F about 25-30 times a year so not a HUGE difference to blistering hot Atlanta. And we're talking about Atlanta here, not southern Georgia so don't try to use irrelevant data to bang up your superiority complex. But one thing is for sure, ATLANTA GETS VASTLY MORE FROSTS AND MUCH LOWER WINTER TEMPS. - LOL


I know I think Australia is mild BECAUSE IT IS MILD. It's funny you say that, considering Atlanta has colder winters with frosts and always the threat of hard frosts down to -22C... LOL
I enjoy when people posts pics, it's like a travelouge. Great pic btw. Looks really nice there and would love to visit.

Just wanted to point out a couple of things from this site:
Climate statistics for Australian locations


the avg high for the regional Melbourne BOM is 78.6F for January. You are very close on the number of warm/hot days. They list 29.9 days on avg going above 86F, with around 20 of them in the three summer months. However, the decile 1 max temp for Jan is a cool 66.7F, meaning one in ten days will not exceed 66.7F. Also, given that Melb gets on avg 20 days in summer with a high temp exceeding 86F, yet the avg high for the three summer months is 77.5F, that tells me you will have an equal number of days or thereabouts with a high temp at or below 69F. It is the law of averages, you can't have an avg high of 78F, have twenty days over 86F, and all the other temps be warm and comfortable. Something is dragging that avg high down, and it has to be really cool 60 degree summer days, which are unheard of even where I live.

I doubt you would ever see a high temp below 66F or even in the 60's at all in Atlanta from June thru Sep.

I totally agree with you though that Aus is much more mild than large swaths of the US. We get warmer summers than Melbourne in Philly, but we pay for it with much colder winters. Funny we just had a mild Jan with an avg high of 46F or around 5F above normal, yet in Melb you guys would be freezing to death. lol.

I went to Eureka, CA a few years back for work and it was in Sept and it was freezing to me. I didn't know much about climates then and thought all CA was warm. I ended up catching a cold and feeling miserable. Temps in Eureka are in the 60's for highs in the summer, yet I saw palm trees there. In fact I stood right in front of that house in the first pic. I remember thinking then it seemed kind of incongruous to see a big ol palm tree yet I was wearing a jacket in Sept.

No one I know would consider Eureka "warm" (mild, yes) anytime of year. btw, I didn't take these pics(google):



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Old 02-03-2012, 03:34 AM
 
Location: The western periphery of Terra Australis
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ilovemycomputer90 View Post
It was mentioned before, but it is important to note that Atlanta averages 40 days with a minimum temperature below freezing. About 2 days per year fail to reach freezing. This year the lowest minimum was 21 F and the lowest maximum was 33 F.

A below average winter in Atlanta is far more damaging than a below average winter in Sydney.
I doubt a below average winter in the coastal suburbs would do much damage, since they're practically frostless. Observatory Hill has never recorded a ground frost (below 2.2C) and temperatures below freezing are becoming extremely rare outside the western suburbs.
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Old 02-03-2012, 05:11 AM
 
Location: Melbourne AUS
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tom77falcons View Post
I enjoy when people posts pics, it's like a travelouge. Great pic btw. Looks really nice there and would love to visit.

Just wanted to point out a couple of things from this site:
Climate statistics for Australian locations


the avg high for the regional Melbourne BOM is 78.6F for January. You are very close on the number of warm/hot days. They list 29.9 days on avg going above 86F, with around 20 of them in the three summer months. However, the decile 1 max temp for Jan is a cool 66.7F, meaning one in ten days will not exceed 66.7F. Also, given that Melb gets on avg 20 days in summer with a high temp exceeding 86F, yet the avg high for the three summer months is 77.5F, that tells me you will have an equal number of days or thereabouts with a high temp at or below 69F. It is the law of averages, you can't have an avg high of 78F, have twenty days over 86F, and all the other temps be warm and comfortable. Something is dragging that avg high down, and it has to be really cool 60 degree summer days, which are unheard of even where I live.
I always wondered what those "deciles" mean, thanks for the explanation We do have days around 68-69F in summer, but they are fairly uncommon. Those 30 days that excced 30C tend to fall between 30-38C... the average number of 40C days is only 1.4. We also get quite a few days below 25C but above 20C, that's where the average is balanced out. In January 2012 for example, we got 11 days at 30C or above and 12 below 25C but above 20C. The remaining 3 were between 19 and 20C. We also only had 2 days that hit or exceed 35C - so most of the 30+ days fell in the 30-35C bracket. The average was 27.4C. Days below 20C in summer are an exception and do not occur every summer month - the lowest high in Jan 2011 was 20.9C.


Quote:
I doubt you would ever see a high temp below 66F or even in the 60's at all in Atlanta from June thru Sep.
Even here summer highs below 66F/19C are rare and takes a strong antarctic front to achieve. Summer cold snaps tend to bottom out in the 20-22C range.

Quote:
I totally agree with you though that Aus is much more mild than large swaths of the US. We get warmer summers than Melbourne in Philly, but we pay for it with much colder winters. Funny we just had a mild Jan with an avg high of 46F or around 5F above normal, yet in Melb you guys would be freezing to death. lol.

I went to Eureka, CA a few years back for work and it was in Sept and it was freezing to me. I didn't know much about climates then and thought all CA was warm. I ended up catching a cold and feeling miserable. Temps in Eureka are in the 60's for highs in the summer, yet I saw palm trees there. In fact I stood right in front of that house in the first pic. I remember thinking then it seemed kind of incongruous to see a big ol palm tree yet I was wearing a jacket in Sept.

No one I know would consider Eureka "warm" (mild, yes) anytime of year. btw, I didn't take these pics(google):


Eureka's got a miserable climate alright! I suppose date palms can live there as their winters are also mild and I'm guessing only see a few frosts a year, and not particularly severe ones at that. That's the key to palm survival - mild winters. We just gotta get Wavehunter to understand this

Hey Tom77, you might enjoy these pics aswell!

Now, I wonder if Atlanta has fauna like this - LOL










Last edited by Flight Simmer; 02-03-2012 at 06:01 AM..
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Old 02-03-2012, 11:02 AM
 
Location: USA East Coast
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tom77falcons View Post
I enjoy when people posts pics, it's like a travelouge. Great pic btw. Looks really nice there and would love to visit.

Just wanted to point out a couple of things from this site:
Climate statistics for Australian locations


the avg high for the regional Melbourne BOM is 78.6F for January. You are very close on the number of warm/hot days. They list 29.9 days on avg going above 86F, with around 20 of them in the three summer months. However, the decile 1 max temp for Jan is a cool 66.7F, meaning one in ten days will not exceed 66.7F. Also, given that Melb gets on avg 20 days in summer with a high temp exceeding 86F, yet the avg high for the three summer months is 77.5F, that tells me you will have an equal number of days or thereabouts with a high temp at or below 69F. It is the law of averages, you can't have an avg high of 78F, have twenty days over 86F, and all the other temps be warm and comfortable. Something is dragging that avg high down, and it has to be really cool 60 degree summer days, which are unheard of even where I live.

I doubt you would ever see a high temp below 66F or even in the 60's at all in Atlanta from June thru Sep.

I totally agree with you though that Aus is much more mild than large swaths of the US. We get warmer summers than Melbourne in Philly, but we pay for it with much colder winters. Funny we just had a mild Jan with an avg high of 46F or around 5F above normal, yet in Melb you guys would be freezing to death. lol.

I went to Eureka, CA a few years back for work and it was in Sept and it was freezing to me. I didn't know much about climates then and thought all CA was warm. I ended up catching a cold and feeling miserable. Temps in Eureka are in the 60's for highs in the summer, yet I saw palm trees there. In fact I stood right in front of that house in the first pic. I remember thinking then it seemed kind of incongruous to see a big ol palm tree yet I was wearing a jacket in Sept.

No one I know would consider Eureka "warm" (mild, yes) anytime of year.
btw, I didn't take these pics(google):


Good research. Those numbers, which I had a rough idea of, but did not have the time to research… underscores exactly what my point was. Relativity. Unfortunately, these debates often turn into country vs. country and the hard data and facts get lost:

The six warmest months in Atlanta (May through October) are from 5 to 10 F WARMER than the six warmest months in Melbourne (November through April). In the warm season, Melbourne has mean temps more like the Portland, OR or upper New England (meaning coolish). I would think that someone from Atlanta, where the warmest month has a mean temp of 80 F (27 C) would find great mirth in the warmest month in Melbourne (January) being only 67 F. Based on the 67 F mean temp in Melbourne in the warmest month – I’ll bet many people from Atlanta (and maybe even Philly) would wear a light jacket often in Melbourne in summer. I know I would.

Also, you’re quite right of course about cool summer days in Melbourne. 60 F (15 C) summer days are almost unheard of in Atlanta, and many other areas of the USA. Melbourne gets only 20 days per year with highs above 86 F. If your data is correct and that figure is right (only 20 days on average exceed 86 F in Melbourne in summer) – then I would now argue that Melbourne barley has a summer compared to what Atlanta experiences. As anyone knows who has been to/lived in Atlanta - midday temps in the middle 80’s (29 – 31 C) are very common in summer, and there are often weeks on end with daily highs in the low/ middle 90’s (33 – 35 C). Sydney and especially Melbourne - just don’t have anything close to that type of heat in summer.

Your image adjustment of Eureka, CA is the poster child of exactly what I mean how palm trees can give a false image of a climate (like Melbourne) being warm. I too have been to coastal northern California. However, unlike you, I was there in MID SUMMER (early July). The stiff wind, stratus, cool onshore flow, and high temps that struggled to get out of the upper 60‘s F felt like mid fall in other parts of the USA I’ve been. Yet there were palm trees – lol. FS stated that palms don’t survive in Atlanta –and obviously that is an error. However, my point is not that palm trees grow in Atlanta, or that Atlanta is warmer in winter than Melbourne or Sydney…only that while many southern hemisphere climates might have few frosts and more palm trees than a place like Atlanta – this is not nescssleay an indication of a warmer climate. I don’t care if 100 ft coconut palms grew in Melbourne…my point was that most folks from Atlanta would find Melbourne cool a good portion of the year.
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Old 02-03-2012, 11:44 AM
 
Location: Top of the South, NZ
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I talked to an older couple yesterday, who were almost straight off the plane, direct from Phoenix. I asked how the temperature felt compared to Phoenix (as weather people tend to do). "Perfect, just like Phoenix in winter, but more humid" was the reply. They winter in Arizona, and summer in Oregon. I think they would probably like Sydney's climate.

It's always interesting to see how people view a different climate within the first day or so.
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Old 02-03-2012, 11:47 AM
nei nei won $500 in our forum's Most Engaging Poster Contest - Thirteenth Edition (Jan-Feb 2015). 

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Location: NYC
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wavehunter007 View Post
I would think that someone from Atlanta, where the warmest month has a mean temp of 80 F (27 C) would find great mirth in the warmest month in Melbourne (January) being only 67 F. Based on the 67 F mean temp in Melbourne in the warmest month – I’ll bet many people from Atlanta (and maybe even Philly) would wear a light jacket often in Melbourne in summer. I know I would.
You're making the assumption that most Atlantans like their summer weather. My guess is that at least half would find Melbourne summers refreshing. While I usually fall under the heat lover side in the hot vs cold arguments, I'm not sure how much I'd prefer Atlanta's summers over Melbourne's.

Melbourne's average lows is 58°F, scarcely any lower than Western MA. The amount of times I wear a jacket during the summer is few, probably a few times late at night the whole summer. Melbourne's issue is its variable not its average. Its average January day 79/58 is a temperature that I don't think I've ever heard anyone complain "it's too cool" except as beach weather.


Quote:
I don’t care if 100 ft coconut palms grew in Melbourne…my point was that most folks from Atlanta would find Melbourne cool a good portion of the year.
In a relative sense, Melbourne summers are cool. But the average day, 78/58 is still warm weather not cool weather. The mean temperature of Melbourne in the summer is the same as where I lived in upstate NY; I thought the summers there were warm but not that hot and definitely not cool.

Last edited by nei; 02-03-2012 at 01:58 PM..
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