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One of my best friend hails from Atlanta, moved here at the age of 28 with her family which was nearly 20 years ago (geez how time does fly fast!). She now lives in Melbourne, her parents moved to Auckland, New Zealand after a few years here as they did not like the climate here and her brother & sister eventually shifted to Christchurch and she is coming up here in 2 weeks time for a week
She has told me that Melbourne winters, whilst cold by "our" standards, is not by theirs and in Atlanta they get snow and quite heavy frosts even on the coast - that does not happen here and summers can be very humid - bordering on oppressive quite often followed by thunderous storms.
From watching some Atlanta-based shows on TV, I have seen very browned lawns surrounded by bare-leafed trees - can tell it's winter there which seems very sunny - with locals wrapped up like they are living in the north pole and the cold see-thru air that comes out of their mouths, that really surprised me a lot as I thought Atlanta is humid cool-warm with all-year-round rain like here
In Jan the avg low in Atlanta is only a couple of degrees above freezing. The coast gets frosts much less. For instance, Sapelo Island, GA has around 6 days in Jan that fall at or below 32F. The Sapelo avg high/low for Jan is 61/41F, warmer than Atlanta by quite a bit.
Most of coastal Georgia, including Sapelo Island is USDA zone 9A, which means avg annual lowest winter min temp is between 20F and 25F. That is a hard frost by your standards, but not N. America.
Arcata, CA never gets frost either, but it ain't warm trust me.
I think people in cool oceanic climates do sometimes get hung up on this frost thing. I was freezing in summer in Eureka, CA and there were palm trees all over. You could never grow cotton in a climate like Melbourne or Sydney, but you certainly could at Sapelo Island. Sea Island cotton some of the finest in the world. All the cotton grown in NSW is grown inland in areas near where I posted that climate which was much colder in winter but much warmer in summer than Sydney. With Sydney and Melb summer temps never really cracking 80F for an avg high I doubt you could grow a decent watermelon.
No need to be sorry. You are right, but Sydney is warmer by 1.3F annually, not very much. Actually, Atlanta has warmer avg high temps in seven months, while Sydney is higher in the other five. Again though you are comparing a coastal sea level location with a city hundreds of miles inland at over a 1,000 ft in elevation.
I wouldn't really talk about "agendas" when you search Australia BOM looking for a warmer than Phoenix climate in the middle of nowhere with 2,000 people and 600 miles closer to the equator to pose a climate battle. Just sayin
There was no agenda there. I just wanted to find a climate that was nearly identical to Phoenix in Australia to make an interesting climate battle. I wanted to make it somewhat challenging for people to choose. I know they are not at the same latitude but that wasn't the point. Why do you have to make it out it be something that it's not?
Good research. Those numbers, which I had a rough idea of, but did not have the time to research… underscores exactly what my point was. Relativity. Unfortunately, these debates often turn into country vs. country and the hard data and facts get lost:
Yeah because you turn it into that.
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The six warmest months in Atlanta (May through October) are from 5 to 10 F WARMER than the six warmest months in Melbourne (November through April).
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In the warm season, Melbourne has mean temps more like the Portland, OR or upper New England (meaning coolish). I would think that someone from Atlanta, where the warmest month has a mean temp of 80 F (27 C) would find great mirth in the warmest month in Melbourne (January) being only 67 F. Based on the 67 F mean temp in Melbourne in the warmest month – I’ll bet many people from Atlanta (and maybe even Philly) would wear a light jacket often in Melbourne in summer. I know I would.
I would think that someone from Melbourne would find great mirth in the coolest month in Atlanta (January) being only 6C. I bet many people from Melbourne, or even Hobart would dress up like eskimos in Atlanta in Winter.
Clearly you know stuff all about Melbourne's summers. Nei has summed it up pretty well:
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Originally Posted by nei
I guess it's obvious, but it still surprises how big of a difference there is between Philly and upstate NY (Finger Lakes) summers. 79/58 would be a perfectly normal summer day there. Melbourne has strange summers; from what I can tell it oscillates between lukewarm and hot, rather than concentrating near the mean (like it would in upstate NY). I can't figure out how sunshine compares, but my guess would be Melbourne is more a switch between cloudy and clear while the Finger Lakes would be more partly cloudy.
That's a pretty good description.
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Originally Posted by wavehunter007
Also, you’re quite right of course about cool summer days in Melbourne. 60 F (15 C) summer days are almost unheard of in Atlanta, and many other areas of the USA. Melbourne gets only 20 days per year with highs above 86 F. If your data is correct and that figure is right (only 20 days on average exceed 86 F in Melbourne in summer) – then I would now argue that Melbourne barley has a summer compared to what Atlanta experiences.
60F days are extremely rare in summer in Melbourne and most summers you will not see any high temps below the high 60's. And if you actually read Tom's post, you'd understand that there are 20 days above 86F in the SUMMER, NOT ANNUALLY!
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As anyone knows who has been to/lived in Atlanta - midday temps in the middle 80’s (29 – 31 C) are very common in summer, and there are often weeks on end with daily highs in the low/ middle 90’s (33 – 35 C). Sydney and especially Melbourne - just don’t have anything close to that type of heat in summer.
Actually mate, Sydney and Melbourne have record highs well above 45C.
I'm not going to deny Atlanta has hotter summers, obviously, but the way you go on with this complex you have that Melbourne has cold summers is pathetic. Reading your vitriol, one would believe Melbourne had the same climate as Dublin! And yet, you STILL fail to admit that Melbourne has warmer winters than Atlanta and you seem perfectly happy to avoid comparisons of winter weather, but that's because it would put a hole in your ego, isn't it?
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Your image adjustment of Eureka, CA is the poster child of exactly what I mean how palm trees can give a false image of a climate (like Melbourne) being warm.
lol, here we go again! I think most people would agree that 30 days above 30C and 10 above 35C with many, many more in the 25-30C range with 8-9 hours of daily sunshine is a pretty decent summer
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I too have been to coastal northern California. However, unlike you, I was there in MID SUMMER (early July). The stiff wind, stratus, cool onshore flow, and high temps that struggled to get out of the upper 60‘s F felt like mid fall in other parts of the USA I’ve been. Yet there were palm trees – lol. FS stated that palms don’t survive in Atlanta –and obviously that is an error.
No, I stated that MANY VARIETIES OF PALMS WOULDN'T SURVIVE IN ATLANTA. Both Melbourne and Sydney harbour many types of palms and I'm betting most of those would die during the first Atlanta cold snap of the winter.
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However, my point is not that palm trees grow in Atlanta, or that Atlanta is warmer in winter than Melbourne or Sydney…only that while many southern hemisphere climates might have few frosts and more palm trees than a place like Atlanta – this is not nescssleay an indication of a warmer climate. I don’t care if 100 ft coconut palms grew in Melbourne…my point was that most folks from Atlanta would find Melbourne cool a good portion of the year.
No, ofcourse that is not your point, because that goes against your superiority complex. Having palm trees may not always be an indication of a warmer ANNUAL temperature, but it sure as hell is an indication of warmer cool seasons and lack of extreme cold. HENCE WHY YOU WILL FIND PALM TREES ALL OVER AUSTRALIA BUT NOT IN MOST OF EUROPE AND NORTH AMERICA!
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Originally Posted by wavehunter007
To be fair – that sounds much like a northerner speaking for a southerner. Just kidding - lol.
I lived in the southland, and many folks I came across from Georgia (mostly Savannah, however) …enjoyed their summer weather. My guess is that many folks in Atlanta, which is one of the fasting growing cities in the USA, choose to live in Atlanta rather than say Boston or Chicago because they enjoy warm and sunny weather. I tend to doubt most folks who like warm climates would find much appealing about Melbourne. There was a lad on these weather forums some years back (SAB/SABB – something), find his posts - and read his endless complaints about what he called “arctic Melbourne”. To be fair, no doubt he was a warm weather fan.
Melbourne may not have the warmest summers - WE GET IT ALREADY, but it does get several hot days with lots of sunshine, so no it is not London or Dublin which you seem so hellbent on making it out to be
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The warmest month in Melbourne has a mean temp of only 67 F – I would think ave highs are not even 79 F – more like 77 F, and that would be the warmest hr or so of the whole day. More likey - high temps in the summer in Melbourne are mostly in the lower and mid 70’s much of the time on “summer afternoons”. That’s downright cool in summer compared to Atlanta. The warmest month in Seattle has a mean temp of 66 F – just one degree cooler than Melbourne (67 F). The PNW is well known as a cool climate region in summer in the USA.
Incorrect yet again. The 1980-2010 average high in the warmest month is 26.5C - a bit more than 25C/77F. No averages table I've seen shows an average high of 77F in Melbourne. Don't know where you got 77F from - just another pathetic attempt at making Melbourne's climate sound worse than it actually is . No, if you actually spent some time here, or well atleast knew anything about Melbourne, you'd realise that most summer afternoons are indeed sunny and tend to be in the mid-high 70's with many more into the 90's. Yes, there's a few cooler days that struggle to reach 70 but these are exception rather than rule.
No point comparing Melbourne to Seattle - Seattle is cooler every month of the year with much cooler winters
Last edited by Flight Simmer; 02-03-2012 at 05:33 PM..
Reason: fixed quote
San Diego also has much cooler summers then Atlanta but of course winters are significantly warmer so better for palms to grow.. wavehunter, you have basically turned this entire thread into a bash the maritime's because Atlanta is so much hotter in the summer despite being far more prone to arctic blasts then even Seattle it would seem.. record low of -22C, sheesh, any place that prone to cold is bound to be a haven for palms
Another angle on this debate - Sydney is large geographically so it has a range of climates. The main site is at Observatory Hill, although sunshine data is collected from the airport site.
So while Observatory Hill has an annual mean of 21.7C, out in Penrith it is a much warmer 24.6C which is almost approaching Brisbane levels. Additionally, rainfall is not uniformly distributed - Obs Hill attains around 1,200mm whereas out at Penrith it is a much lower 700mm.
Granted, the Obs Hill readings are probably more representative of the average Sydney-sider on a population basis, but given the city's large geography, there are a range of micro climates.
I remember a mid winter's day when we were attending an event at Sydney International Regatta Centre in Penrith in mid winter. We had jackets on in the eastern suburbs (near the coast) when we left, but were in shorts and t-shirts when we arrived.
Comparatively, you almost have two different climatic classifications - warm temperate and humid sub tropical. Therefore the average highs in Penrith are almost on par with Atlanta.
For me it was a close one - I chose Atlanta purely because it has higher sunshine hours, but it was a close call due to Sydney having milder winters. However if it came down to three regions: Sydney City, Sydney Penrith or Atlanta, I'd go with Sydney Penrith.
I don't understand why everyone is focusing on just summer weather with Sydney and Melbourne. There is more to a places climate than just summers. What about winters and the other seasons? why do you choose to ignore them? Sorry to say but both Sydney and Melbourne are much warmer in winter than Atlanta. Just look at how many frosts a year Sydney and Melbourne get than Atlanta. You can't just focus on summers when it suits your agenda. It's best to look at annual means I think in which case Sydney is warmest then Atlanta and then Melbourne.
That was kind of my point – only in a reverse direction:
It seems that the three or four months of winter is used to define Atlanta’s climate – while the other 8 or 9 months are being ignored. FS seems to have a personal issue with Atlanta, and that’s fine. I just enjoy looking at climate data and seeing where climates fall. You’re quite right, a few months in summer or winter should not be used to define a climate. Annual mean temperates might be a better picture?
Yet, if you do just that – Atlanta (annual mean temp 61 F) is warmer than Melbourne (58 F):
I could care less what location can grow palms or apples or what place has 100 frosts or zero. My only point in this debate is that we should at least give the climate data/facts a fair shake and let them stand on their own.
I would think that someone from Melbourne would find great mirth in the coolest month in Atlanta (January) being only 6C. I bet many people from Melbourne, or even Hobart would dress up like eskimos in Atlanta in Winter.
Clearly you know stuff all about Melbourne's summers. Nei has summed it up pretty well:
That's a pretty good description.
60F days are extremely rare in summer in Melbourne and most summers you will not see any high temps below the high 60's. And if you actually read Tom's post, you'd understand that there are 20 days above 86F in the SUMMER, NOT ANNUALLY!
Actually mate, Sydney and Melbourne have record highs well above 45C.
I'm not going to deny Atlanta has hotter summers, obviously, but the way you go on with this complex you have that Melbourne has cold summers is pathetic. Reading your vitriol, one would believe Melbourne had the same climate as Dublin! And yet, you STILL fail to admit that Melbourne has warmer winters than Atlanta and you seem perfectly happy to avoid comparisons of winter weather, but that's because it would put a hole in your ego, isn't it?
lol, here we go again! I think most people would agree that 30 days above 30C and 10 above 35C with many, many more in the 25-30C range with 8-9 hours of daily sunshine is a pretty decent summer
No, I stated that MANY VARIETIES OF PALMS WOULDN'T SURVIVE IN ATLANTA. Both Melbourne and Sydney harbour many types of palms and I'm betting most of those would die during the first Atlanta cold snap of the winter.
No, ofcourse that is not your point, because that goes against your superiority complex. Having palm trees may not always be an indication of a warmer ANNUAL temperature, but it sure as hell is an indication of warmer cool seasons and lack of extreme cold. HENCE WHY YOU WILL FIND PALM TREES ALL OVER AUSTRALIA BUT NOT IN MOST OF EUROPE AND NORTH AMERICA!
Melbourne may not have the warmest summers - WE GET IT ALREADY, but it does get several hot days with lots of sunshine, so no it is not London or Dublin which you seem so hellbent on making it out to be
Incorrect yet again. The 1980-2010 average high in the warmest month is 26.5C - a bit more than 25C/77F. No averages table I've seen shows an average high of 77F in Melbourne. Don't know where you got 77F from - just another pathetic attempt at making Melbourne's climate sound worse than it actually is . No, if you actually spent some time here, or well atleast knew anything about Melbourne, you'd realise that most summer afternoons are indeed sunny and tend to be in the mid-high 70's with many more into the 90's. Yes, there's a few cooler days that struggle to reach 70 but these are exception rather than rule.
No point comparing Melbourne to Seattle - Seattle is cooler every month of the year with much cooler winters
There was no agenda there. I just wanted to find a climate that was nearly identical to Phoenix in Australia to make an interesting climate battle. I wanted to make it somewhat challenging for people to choose. I know they are not at the same latitude but that wasn't the point. Why do you have to make it out it be something that it's not?
I'm curious, if there were a climate that had an avg high in the warmest month of say 60/49F, and in the coldest month 41/35F, and you had another with say 85F/65F warmest & 55F/30F coldest, which would you choose? And let's add to this that the latter climate got frost 15 times a year, mabye once or twice dipping into the 20'sF, and the former never.
I'm curious, if there were a climate that had an avg high in the warmest month of say 60/49F, and in the coldest month 41/35F, and you had another with say 85F/65F warmest & 55F/30F coldest, which would you choose? And let's add to this that the latter climate got frost 15 times a year, mabye once or twice dipping into the 20'sF, and the former never.
How could it be frostless when the average low is barely above freezing in the coldest month?
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And yet, you STILL fail to admit that Melbourne has warmer winters than Atlanta and you seem perfectly happy to avoid comparisons of winter weather, but that's because it would put a hole in your ego, isn't it? 
