Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Spring and autumn temps are similar. Daily ranges in London are actually more favorable, I believe you have pretty cold nights in winter where you live. Rainfall is even in London around the year but less than you get.
Yes London is "dull" averaging about 1650 hours a year but not sufficiently less than where you live that would stop it growing the same things if the winter temperatures were the same by my reconing.
But what point is that making. This is a weather forum and a climate discussion and nobody gives a gorilla's right tit what you can grow, it doesn't make your climate the same or similar. Just growing Canary date palms here doesn't make us the Canaries.
The point is what Med areas look like and whether some Oceanic climates look the same. This particular discussion is branching off the photos Nei posted. Do try to keep up old boy.
How is it like SE england -sunshine, spring/winter/autumn temps, daily ranges, rainfall patterns? The fact is the two areas share a similiar summer, that's where it ends. London wouldn't have the spring/autumn temps to grow many things.
I didn't say it was like Rome, I said it could grow the same things.
Also By Trewartha's definition it is subtropical. I guess you prefer the definition that makes NYC subtropical?
The reason why Southeast is unable to grow more subtropical species is because of one simple reason, winters are cold. Our growing season is too short to grow subtropical warm loving plants.
Sunshine intensity/hours spring and autumn temps. For example, I still have tomatoes growing/ripening here. Could that happen in a typical London October? New people renting next to here are from coastal Devon, they were enjoying the greater range of what grew in their summer garden. I pointed out that they had similar summer temps, they said it's just not the same, and I've heard that same comment many times.
CIDPs also die in London, or didn't you know that?
Well I just don't know why you keep banging on about plants and what you can grow, in what is a weather forum and about distinctions between oceanic and subtropical or med climates. Fact is some oceanic climates (like yours) are borderline and may be just about able to grow what Rome can but that's where the difference ends.
There's a sliding scale of temperatures for "oceanic climate" and the UK (in winter) is further down that scale than Nelson NZ and not able to grow as many things but climate wise I would be barely any the wiser except in the three months of winter and as a warm appreciator NZ would suck, if I want a real subtropical/med climate I can find it in the Med and the real Rome or Athens and not some windswept island in the south pacific ocean.
Oh we successfully grew tomatoes (sans greenhouse) in my house in Windsor BTW not that it really means much. Just stop trying to pretend you really have a subtropical climate and everything will be good.
Sunshine intensity/hours spring and autumn temps. For example, I still have tomatoes growing/ripening here. Could that happen in a typical London October? New people renting next to here are from coastal Devon, they were enjoying the greater range of what grew in their summer garden. I pointed out that they had similar summer temps, they said it's just not the same, and I've heard that same comment many times.
CIDPs also die in London, or didn't you know that?
Canary date palms do not die in London. They are very successfull.
The point is what Med areas look like and whether some Oceanic climates look the same. This particular discussion is branching off the photos Nei posted. Do try to keep up old boy.
No, I am taking it back to where it started, and thinking in the main context of this thread. What plants can be grown somewhere is a subset of this discussion, and so discussing from the context in which I am now is perfectly valid seeing as this is the weather and climate forum. You are making judgement pertaining to your climate based on what you can grow in isolation, which I would consider to be irrelevant and ill-informed. You have an Oceanic climate, boy, and any idiot can feel that would be the case if they lived there, so deal with it.
The reason why Southeast is unable to grow more subtropical species is because of one simple reason, winters are cold. Our growing season is too short to grow subtropical warm loving plants.
Despite what Weatherfan thinks, your spring and autumns lack the temps or sunshine hours/intensity. If you get damaging winter cold, as often happens here, you need active growth by late winter/early spring to keep plants robust. The SE doesn't typically get that, although some areas have sufficient local climates to do better.
Your growing season is too short for a lot of subtropicals because of your autumn/springs. Plenty of plants survive the winter but still don't make enough growth to survive long term.
Despite what Weatherfan thinks, your spring and autumns lack the temps or sunshine hours/intensity. If you get damaging winter cold, as often happens here, you need active growth by late winter/early spring to keep plants robust. The SE doesn't typically get that, although some areas have sufficient local climates to do better.
Your growing season is too short for a lot of subtropicals because of your autumn/springs. Plenty of plants survive the winter but still don't make enough growth to survive long term.
Oh and what do I think, you?
I never said we can grow everything Nelson can if you read properly. The point was that YOUR climate is nothing like a true subtropical climate, or a med climate which you keep trying to pass it off as based on plants alone.
I made the point that your climate is far more similar to SE England than somewhere like ROME as YOU said, or GREECE as you said earlier despite what you can get away with growing. You BS'd about that when you said that so don't turn it back onto me.
I mean you start quibbling the difference between spring temps in London and Nelson when there must be like 2 degrees difference at best, having just lumped your climate (subtropical apparently) in with something like Rome or Greece!!! Both of which must have warmer Novembers than your summers FFS. Your argument died ages ago!
Last edited by Weatherfan2; 04-16-2013 at 12:59 PM..
Despite what Weatherfan thinks, your spring and autumns lack the temps or sunshine hours/intensity. If you get damaging winter cold, as often happens here, you need active growth by late winter/early spring to keep plants robust. The SE doesn't typically get that, although some areas have sufficient local climates to do better.
Your growing season is too short for a lot of subtropicals because of your autumn/springs. Plenty of plants survive the winter but still don't make enough growth to survive long term.
I'm not a horticulturist or whatever but I know for a fact that our cooler season (lets say from november to March) is longer than oceanic New Zealand. Some parts of New Zealand is almost subtropical in how the mildness linger year round. Southeast England is fairly mild year round but our average winter highs are around 7c not brutally cold but that coolness lingers.
I don't get your point about our shoulder seasons because well there not really cold.
I sincerly doubt that the average winter high in london is 7c when mines are 6c and we are considerably colder than London in the winter. More like 9 or 10c.
Well I just don't know why you keep banging on about plants and what you can grow, in what is a weather forum and about distinctions between oceanic and subtropical or med climates. Fact is some oceanic climates (like yours) are borderline and may be just about able to grow what Rome can but that's where the difference ends.
There's a sliding scale of temperatures for "oceanic climate" and the UK (in winter) is further down that scale than Nelson NZ and not able to grow as many things but climate wise I would be barely any the wiser except in the three months of winter and as a warm appreciator NZ would suck, if I want a real subtropical/med climate I can find it in the Med and the real Rome or Athens and not some windswept island in the south pacific ocean.
Oh we successfully grew tomatoes (sans greenhouse) in my house in Windsor BTW not that it really means much. Just stop trying to pretend you really have a subtropical climate and everything will be good.
This is an Oceanic climate for sure, no debate there and the subtropical debate is old hat (although I should again point out Trewartha's view). I understand your climate preferences well and get that NZ is not your type of climate. Here isn't windswept though, with an average wind speed of 3mph. The Autumns/springs are not the same, however you try to spin it.
I wasn't meaning greenhouses for tomatoes. If your summer is hotter than here, why don't you grow them outside. My first ones were ready before Christmas, would outdoor tomatoes be ready by mid June there? Interestingly, some posters from warm/hot summers climates have tried to use tomatoes as a benchmark for warm summers.
Quote:
Originally Posted by P London
Canary date palms do not die in London. They are very successfull.
You might want to research that one. There are some that grow, but also many that have not survived.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
