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In addition, it is a complete exaggeration, if not a complete lie, to claim that the Mid-Atlantic is one of the only areas of the country that has these storms, much less the world. I don't know whether to attribute that claim to insanity or (self-)deception, but I'm leaning towards the former.
I was assuming that poster was talking about upstate New York, which does get a respectable amount of snow, but by no means is the only place in the US that does.
At least to me, without looking at the data, the frequency of heavy snowfalls isn't a whole lot more here than in the NYC metro. More smaller snowfalls occur, but the huge snowstorms frequency isn't increased by as much. Ditto with parts of upstate NY not particularly prone to lake effect snow.
At least to me, without looking at the data, the frequency of heavy snowfalls isn't a whole lot more here than in the NYC metro. More smaller snowfalls occur, but the huge snowstorms frequency isn't increased by as much. Ditto with parts of upstate NY not particularly prone to lake effect snow.
I'm not sure, but I would think frequency of heavy snowfalls is much greater in Massachusetts than in the NYC area. I thought most of the NYC area gets about 20 to 30 inches of snow annual…compared to 60 to 70 inches in central and western Massachusetts. As I remember, even Boston right on the Atlantic still gets something like twice as much snow as NYC on average.
I'm not sure, but I would think frequency of heavy snowfalls is much greater in Massachusetts than in the NYC area. I thought most of the NYC area gets about 20 to 30 inches of snow annual…compared to 60 to 70 inches in central and western Massachusetts. As I remember, even Boston right on the Atlantic still gets something like twice as much snow as NYC on average.
Yeah but the higher totals for a place like Massachusettes might come from token events. I would assume that the frequency of heavy snow storms isn't drastically different than NYC, maybe slightly higher if there's a delicate rain/snow line.
Then why don't we see snow cover on untreated areas all the time? And even if all the snow was cleared it would have to go somewhere, but we don't see huge snow piles there all the time. In response to your earlier point, New York doesn't have any cold days - temperatures below 20F are seldom seen, and subzero mornings are absent in almost every winter. Above-freezing mornings are commonplace, and those few subfreezing days you mention only highlight the fact that the vast majority of days are above-freezing at least in the afternoon, and thus it's the rule that moisture comes in the form of rain. And even in these subfreezing days temperatures usually stay above 20 at night. You are right that 70 degree days are rare, at least along the immediate coast, but 50 and 60 degree days are not; in fact they're reasonably common, certainly occurring more often than mornings that are significantly below 20F. The same maritime moderation that retards 70 degree days also prevents cold weather from occuring, thus leading to more consistent mild conditions.
By and large Cambium's list is an accurate depiction of the pathetic nature of Mid-Atlantic/NYC winters.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cambium
It is and thanks. Yes 70 degrees would be a record, Maybe 55-60 would have been better for that senario. For instance, 5 snow storms last year, and what happened this year? Its hard to get winter around here and when it is around, its for 4-5 weeks..
But anyone will admit even 40s and 50s for "winter" is pathetic and the Mid/Atlantic/NYC sees plenty of those during winter. Maybe someone else can explain that we rarely see frozen puddles or "tiny lakes" frozen over for more then 3 weeks and you'll be lucky if the ice is 3 inches thick when it does happen. LMAO! What a Joke. Beyond my imagination why people complain around here. 52 weeks in a year and they'll complain about a couple weeks worth of sporatic days below 40.
You both seem be putting way too much weight on outliers than averages. With the same logic, I could just as easily say that Florida winters are not really warm because of the cold snaps that happen every now and then there.
The long term average high in NYC in January is 39F, and only marginally warmer in February. For every deviation above the mean, there is a comparable deviation below it (otherwise the math simply does not add up). Sure, you could have one freakishly warm day 20F above the average and then a string of days only a couple of degrees below, but in the end the math has to add up. So, you cannot look deviations to one side and completely ignore the other side.
So here are some other stats you might be missing:
- NYC averages about .5 inches of snow (depending on the historical period observed - longer if you include years prior to 1981) in both November and April - months well outside the traditional definition of winter. Measurable snowfall implies that it was settling on the ground.
- First and last freezes typically occur in mid-April and late October. Which roughly coincides with the growing season (at least for trees if not grasses). That means there are no leaves on trees for about 5.5 months.
- To my knowledge there has never been a winter without any snow in NYC.
- The average coldest temperature of the year is about 8F.
- On average, there are 22 days per year when the high temp is below freezing. That's equivalent to 3 weeks! (To be fair, this is a very long term average, and does not reflect the recent warming.)
To me, those are pretty impressive figures for a city that has possibly the strongest heat island effect in North America, located on the coast at sea level and at the latitude of Naples, Italy.
By and large Cambium's list is an accurate depiction of the pathetic nature of Mid-Atlantic/NYC winters.
Of course NYC winters don't measure up to your standards and I wouldn't expect them to (and if they did, I probably wouldn't live here!). But that doesn't mean they are "pathetic".
That isn't true at all. In parts of Northern Michigan, the Mountain West, and Coastal Alaska, a 2-foot dump isn't even considered "massive." Two feet in a day barely raises an eyebrow here.
Well obviously I speaking purely on a synoptic basis, not including Lake Effect or Elevation snows.
And Alaska is in its own class.
I bet if I were to pull up the statistics (and I will do that if you try me), the numbers for "snowy" climos otuside the lake effect snow belts and mountains would show a huge dearth of 15"+ storms in comparison to the east coast cities.
I know Detroit hasn't had a 15"+ storm since 1974 (before that the last 15"+ storm was in 1900), and it's only 12"+ storm since 1974 was in 2005 (which was exactly 12").
Ok, found more recent data 1981-2010:
For the months Dec-Feb, there are on average 20 days with highs >=50F
There are almost as many (17) days when highs are <= 32F
So, sure, NYC is not exactly Minneapolis but there are enough cold days to not call its winters a "joke" in my opinion.
Well obviously I speaking purely on a synoptic basis, not including Lake Effect or Elevation snows.
And Alaska is in its own class.
I bet if I were to pull up the statistics (and I will do that if you try me), the numbers for "snowy" climos otuside the lake effect snow belts and mountains would show a huge dearth of 15"+ storms in comparison to the east coast cities.
I know Detroit hasn't had a 15"+ storm since 1974 (before that the last 15"+ storm was in 1900), and it's only 12"+ storm since 1974 was in 2005 (which was exactly 12").
So...excluding the actual snowiest places in the world (because for some reason that you just made up, they don't count), the east coast is the snowiest place in the world? Okey dokey. Please do find records of all of these 2+ foot snowfalls that you claim are so common in non-lake-effect areas of the east coast.
So...excluding the actual snowiest places in the world (because for some reason that you just made up, they don't count), the east coast is the snowiest place in the world? Okey dokey. Please do find records of all of these 2+ foot snowfalls that you claim are so common in non-lake-effect areas of the east coast.
When did I say the east coast citie were the snowiest places in the world? I said east coast cities have the best potential for frequent and massive synoptic dumps in the country and world (do you know what synoptic means?) How in anyway, in your logic, does that imply that that region is the snowiest in the world?
You know what, never mind. You're obviously not worth wasting my time with.
But here are your links for DC/Baltimore, NYC and Boston anyway. Then in comaprison, I have links for Chicago and Detroit. Have at them and have a good life.
(Note: DC/Baltimore's numbers don't include the massive snowstorms from 2001-present, including the two back to back ~20" storms they had in 2010, and Chicago's numbers don't include the Groundhog Day Blizzard).
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