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Everyone read what you said, and three people called you out on it. You didn't say "compared to Chicago and Detroit". I'm not going to waste more words than I need to in order to make my point. Your links weren't exactly impressive, either. I thought you were going on about "massive" two-foot snowfalls. Didn't see much of that in there.
Ok, found more recent data 1981-2010:
For the months Dec-Feb, there are on average 20 days with highs >=50F
There are almost as many (17) days when highs are <= 32F
So, sure, NYC is not exactly Minneapolis but there are enough cold days to not call its winters a "joke" in my opinion.
Good Morning - So out of 90 days, 17 days (less than 20% of the time) averages below 32? I should add that to my list too. lol. How is that a winter? And average just means sometimes its 22, sometimes its 42.
But again, I'll ask, what are we all classifying "joke" as? Is it just having temps consistantly over 40 that would make it a joke?
Put it this way, some can make the claim that winters on the East coast are like a long Fall with occasional winter mixed in. (NYC southward).
NESIS - The Northeast Snowfall Impact Scale (NESIS) developed by Paul Kocin and Louis Uccellini of the NWS characterizes and ranks high-impact Northeast snowstorms. These storms have large areas of 10 inch snowfall accumulations and greater. NESIS has five categories: Extreme, Crippling, Major, Significant, and Notable.
This isnt "just" the East coast. This is the ENTIRE northeast. So with that said, if you look at the date, you'll notice its rare and doesnt happen often. So if this is for entire NorthEast, imagine how rare it is for the coast.
Looks like 1 every other year on average but there were spans that went 5 years without any and sometimes once a year. 2 in one year recently.
Good Morning - So out of 90 days, 17 days (less than 20% of the time) averages below 32? I should add that to my list too. lol. How is that a winter?
The point was that truly cold days are as common as mild days not rarer.
Well 1 in 5 days is not exactly rare. To me, that's the temperature when being outside starts to become slightly painful to exposed skin (sure, you can put layers on, but there's still your face) and these conditions are present the entire day. Yes, I'm still capable of going outside and even enjoying myself at times but the cold is on another level. My memories of walking around in say, Midtown Manhattan in 20 something degree weather especially as there's often a wind tunnel effect through the buildings are not fond ones. These conditions aren't exactly rare; they happened enough times to me.
If we're defining "winter" to mean cold enough to satisfy cold lovers and let snow remain on the ground long-term, then no that's not a winter. But that's a bit biased. In my mind, I'd define "winter" as cold enough to really irritate someone who dislikes cold.
So here are some other stats you might be missing:
- NYC averages about .5 inches of snow (depending on the historical period observed - longer if you include years prior to 1981) in both November and April - months well outside the traditional definition of winter. Measurable snowfall implies that it was settling on the ground.
- First and last freezes typically occur in mid-April and late October. Which roughly coincides with the growing season (at least for trees if not grasses). That means there are no leaves on trees for about 5.5 months.
- To my knowledge there has never been a winter without any snow in NYC.
- The average coldest temperature of the year is about 8F.
- On average, there are 22 days per year when the high temp is below freezing. That's equivalent to 3 weeks! (To be fair, this is a very long term average, and does not reflect the recent warming.)
To me, those are pretty impressive figures for a city that has possibly the strongest heat island effect in North America, located on the coast at sea level and at the latitude of Naples, Italy.
Agreed with all; and the "no leaf" period is a good stat as well.
None of you are looking at it from a snow lovers perspective though, New York winters are not good enough. Simple as that. There's no convincing me otherwise. I'd probably be better off living in Braemar or Leadhills than New York for persistent snow cover.
None of you are looking at it from a snow lovers perspective though, New York winters are not good enough. Simple as that. There's no convincing me otherwise. I'd probably be better off living in Braemar or Leadhills than New York for persistent snow cover.
Oh no, I agree that NYC winters are bad from a snow lover's perspective.
None of you are looking at it from a snow lovers perspective though, New York winters are not good enough.
But thats the misconception some are having here. It's not from a winter lover stand point of view, its from what winter really means. This is like a Global Warming / Cooling debate.
And pointing out rare snowstorms should prove I'm not bias but instead trying to figure out what everyone is classifying winter as. If I was bias I'd be saying winters are phenominal around here and showing stats to prove my point.
Definitions of *Winter* - Coldest Season of the year. - Shortest days in the year. - December-March in N.Hem.
So everyone has winters and not one place is a joke.
First and last freezes typically occur in mid-April and late October. Which roughly coincides with the growing season (at least for trees if not grasses). That means there are no leaves on trees for about 5.5 months.
To me, growing up and living in the South, this is how I typically define "winter" in addition to the calendar months of Dec-Feb and the shorter days of that season, etc. By this perspective, NYC's winter is almost 2x as long as ours, as our trees don't usually go bare until the first half of December, and start releafing in March, sometimes early March, usually around the middle. So that's three months or less in which the trees are bare - no wonder why winter seems to flick past in the blink of an eye. Each spring, I say, "Winter's over already?!?"
At least this is better than South Florida, where winter is just a long spring. Still was my favorite time of the year, as it was cool and dry and *not hot*...not like the other 8-9 months of the year. Which is why we still called it "winter", as it's a very distinct season, although it's nothing like northern winters of course.
I personally think winters in PA are long and cold, with 2012 being a rare exception. But i know a lot of you snow-lovers disagree, so here is your chance to discuss why you think winters in our area are pathetic. I will officially dedicate this thread to Patricius Maximus and Ilovemycomputer
Ok, I have to ask because it could change my whole answer for this topic. You say East "coast". But now re-reading your post you mention PA. (maybe you meant philly?)
So , is this topic about A, B or C?
I thought A would have been called Eastern U.S more than East "coast" but thats why Im asking
B & C look similar but I added a few more interior sections on C plus Maine.
I've been basing my posts on B only.
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