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View Poll Results: Which climate is more subtropical?
Turpan 5 15.15%
Eureka 28 84.85%
Voters: 33. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 06-09-2012, 01:39 PM
 
Location: Top of the South, NZ
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Patricius Maximus View Post
If I'm not mistaken corn and tomatoes require summer heat that is more typical of NYC or Kansas than Eureka. There are many species that won't grow well in 60F summer highs regardless of winter warmth. If you're going by just the number of species, then you want a biodiversity index, not a climate classification.
A biodiversity index is closely related to climate, which is my point.

Tomatoes grow well in NYC or Kansas, but are they naturalised? (I'm actually quite curious about this one). Tomato cycles here continue unabated from seed over wintering in the ground, and will self seed in late spring, so could be considered naturalised. If a plant can't survive without human assistance, they can't be said to thrive.
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Old 06-09-2012, 01:53 PM
 
Location: Top of the South, NZ
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tom77falcons View Post
At what point along the US West Coast for instance do you think subtropical ends? Is most of the south coast of England subtropical in your opinion?
To my way of thinking Eureka would seem to be about the limit, and maybe a few sites in southern England.

I think the discussion could benefit from defining temperate as well, and working upwards. There seems to be vagueness and lack of consensus from experts on what the terms actually mean.
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Old 06-09-2012, 02:23 PM
 
Location: In transition
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Hardiness zone 10 or greater for oceanic climates seems to be a good cutoff point for subtropical IMO
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Old 06-09-2012, 02:32 PM
 
Location: Mid Atlantic USA
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I think sometimes vegetation, while a generally good indicator, can be deceiving as well. Look at two diff pics of Beaufort, SC taken in January of 2008, and one looks more continental due to dead grass and leafless trees, and the other more subtropical, considering it is January. I suspect one house overseeded the lawn with cool weather grasses, while the other does not. One property prefers more decidious type trees, the other less so. The properties are only a thousand or so feet apart.










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Old 06-09-2012, 02:47 PM
 
Location: Top of the South, NZ
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tom77falcons View Post
I think sometimes vegetation, while a generally good indicator, can be deceiving as well. Look at two diff pics of Beaufort, SC taken in January of 2008, and one looks more continental due to dead grass and leafless trees, and the other more subtropical, considering it is January. I suspect one house overseeded the lawn with cool weather grasses, while the other does not. One property prefers more decidious type trees, the other less so. The properties are only a thousand or so feet apart.









I don't think that is a good example as it is the same climate. I can get a similar effect here,by looking out different windows. Both appear "dead" by my standards. No flowering plants, citrus, bananas etc, and the green grass is summer green, rather than winter green.
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Old 06-09-2012, 05:38 PM
 
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Eureka is subtropical, barely.
Canary Island Date palms grow there.

Try growing them in Turpan,
try growing any palm, good luck.
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Old 06-09-2012, 05:44 PM
 
Location: Toronto
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I wonder what the native vegetation of Turpan is, if any exists at all. By the looks of those stats, probably not much, unless they grew near waterways or oases.
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Old 06-09-2012, 05:50 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe90 View Post
Eureka, by a country mile. Turpan just couldn't support the plant life Eureka does.

Koppen's 22C summer heat threshold seems arbitrary, and subjective.
True, Koppen arbitrarily "chose" 22c
just like he chose the -3c threshold,
IMO nothing magical about either temperature.
He easily could have chose 21c and -2c.

The worlds climates are transitional and it's
not easy to neatly define them, put them into neat "boxes",
there will always be anomalies.
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Old 06-09-2012, 09:35 PM
 
Location: Mid Atlantic USA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe90 View Post
I don't think that is a good example as it is the same climate. I can get a similar effect here,by looking out different windows. Both appear "dead" by my standards. No flowering plants, citrus, bananas etc, and the green grass is summer green, rather than winter green.

The first one doesn't appear "dead" to me. Maybe they grow orange trees or banana in the back, lol, since citrus and banana grows in Charleston and the rest of the Lowcountry on south from there. This from a Charleston blog I read: baxter sez: Orange report


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Old 06-09-2012, 09:50 PM
 
Location: New York City
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Neither is subtropical IMO.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe90 View Post
No. But those climates have another important feature that the humid subtropical climates lack - low annual temperature range. Much more akin to the tropics.

I don't understand why there is a summer heat requirement, it's not going to change the number of species NYC (for instance) can support.
The key feature of tropical climates is heat. Climates which have hot summers are tropical for at least a part of the year. Climates which are cool year-round are never tropical.
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