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View Poll Results: Which climate is more subtropical?
Turpan 5 15.15%
Eureka 28 84.85%
Voters: 33. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 06-10-2012, 11:38 AM
 
Location: SE Michigan
796 posts, read 559,767 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe90 View Post
The more subtropical a place is, the more plant species it should be able to support. It doesn't have much to do with summer heat (imo). Hot summers don't allow NYC to support more plant species than Eureka or here.

Flora shows the natural progression of warmest through to coolest climates.
Agreed. There are some species that require summer heat to grow well, but overall a climate like Eureka can grow vastly more plants and overall biodiversity than NYC. Coastal California can grow almost everything that will grow in the Northeast, plus thousands of things that won't.
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Old 06-10-2012, 01:21 PM
 
Location: New York City
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Quote:
Originally Posted by unobtainium View Post
Agreed. There are some species that require summer heat to grow well, but overall a climate like Eureka can grow vastly more plants and overall biodiversity than NYC. Coastal California can grow almost everything that will grow in the Northeast, plus thousands of things that won't.
My question is: so what? Eureka can grow more species than not just NYC but most of the deep South as well. So is Eureka more subtropical than Virginia Beach? Atlanta? Dallas? Houston? I'm not saying flora is unimportant but using it as the sole or the primary criterion leads to very strange results where cool temperate climates end up more subtropical than location that feature actual tropical weather for half the year or more.
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Old 06-10-2012, 02:16 PM
 
Location: SE Michigan
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Well, those two factors sort of balance one another out. Coastal California can grow more species than many southeastern states, but lacks summer heat. In the end, they're both subtropical but for different reasons - and different kinds of "subtropical" IMO.
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Old 06-11-2012, 12:37 AM
 
Location: Mid Atlantic USA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrMarbles View Post
My question is: so what? Eureka can grow more species than not just NYC but most of the deep South as well. So is Eureka more subtropical than Virginia Beach? Atlanta? Dallas? Houston? I'm not saying flora is unimportant but using it as the sole or the primary criterion leads to very strange results where cool temperate climates end up more subtropical than location that feature actual tropical weather for half the year or more.

Eureka cannot grow more veg than the deep south. There are so many things that won't grow in Eureka due to lack of heat. Does cotton grow in Eureka or NZ for that matter. No way. You need 90F days. Eureka is just cold. Period. I've been there. Even the people there have to belong to indoor swim clubs cause it is too cold to swim out of doors.
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Old 06-11-2012, 07:15 AM
 
500 posts, read 877,640 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Patricius Maximus View Post
You have a point there . However, that wouldn't include the humid subtropical climates seeing as they're still wet in summertime. Plus, heavy precipitation in summer is the rule but there are exceptions even among true tropical climates. Honolulu is definitely a tropical climate, but it has its dry season in summer. This also goes for some other Hawaiian locations. There's also a few indisputably tropical spots in Sri Lanka that get most of their rain in winter. So I wouldn't say that summer rains are one of the key features of tropical-ness.
As does exist, but I still think summer rain (Am and Aw) are more classic.
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Old 06-11-2012, 07:16 AM
 
Location: Laurentia
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ttad View Post
As does exist, but I still think summer rain (Am and Aw) are more classic.
We can agree on that.
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Old 06-11-2012, 11:08 AM
 
Location: USA
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I don't see Turpan as even being close to subtropical so I'll have to go with Eureka which is at least very close to the Mediterranean / Marine west coast boundary in CA.
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Old 06-24-2019, 05:55 PM
 
Location: Putnam County, TN
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I voted Eureka, but I personally don't see either as subtropical. While I find it intriguing to compare the two, I agree with the Koppen climate system far more than the Trewartha one.

Even San Francisco is cool enough in the summer to grow many subpolar plants, although it is warm enough in the winter to grow tropical plants too; I think tropical and temperate mix too much in a climate as mild as New Zealand or the Californian coast to safely define their climate as a one-fits-all category; all I can safely say about them is they're definitely far from polar. Eureka isn't even warm enough for tropical plants in winter, AND it has summers that don't get above the mid 60s Fahrenheit on average (although the mid 50s winters would be comfortable in short sleeves). On the other hand, Turpan is way too extreme in the winter despite the long, hot summers.

Eureka is far closer for me due to the diverse vegetation and warm winters, but neither are nearly as good of an example of a subtropical climate as the Nashville/Murfreesboro metro area in Tennessee (which also marginally meets Trewartha's criteria, but unlike the other two, is well within the Cfa zone in Koppen's system). You can easily grow many subtropical indicator plants like Southern Magnolia, Pampas Grass, Needle Palm (although they're not widely sold and many Tennesseans don't know you can grow them), Dwarf Palmetto (although again, not many Tennesseans are aware they can grow these), Crape myrtle and the native blackberries in even the higher elevations of middle Tennessee. You can also grow crimson clover, pansies, and cool-season varieties of wheat all winter and still grow hot-weather plants for half the year.

Broad-leaved evergreen plants would have a tough time with Turpan's winters, as would hot-weather plants with Eureka's summers.

Interesting discussion, BTW!
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Old 06-24-2019, 07:07 PM
 
Location: Top of the South, NZ
19,018 posts, read 16,817,405 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sun Belt-lover L.A.M. View Post
I voted Eureka, but I personally don't see either as subtropical. While I find it intriguing to compare the two, I agree with the Koppen climate system far more than the Trewartha one.

Even San Francisco is cool enough in the summer to grow many subpolar plants, although it is warm enough in the winter to grow tropical plants too; I think tropical and temperate mix too much in a climate as mild as New Zealand or the Californian coast to safely define their climate as a one-fits-all category; all I can safely say about them is they're definitely far from polar. Eureka isn't even warm enough for tropical plants in winter, AND it has summers that don't get above the mid 60s Fahrenheit on average (although the mid 50s winters would be comfortable in short sleeves). On the other hand, Turpan is way too extreme in the winter despite the long, hot summers.
NZ is lucky in having quite a wide range of plant species that can grow well - am currently deciding on some deciduous plants for the driveway, and we're at odds over weather to plant Birches or Jacarandas. A lot of climates wouldn't have that choice.


Quote:
Originally Posted by tom77falcons View Post
Eureka cannot grow more veg than the deep south. There are so many things that won't grow in Eureka due to lack of heat. Does cotton grow in Eureka or NZ for that matter. No way. You need 90F days. Eureka is just cold. Period. I've been there. Even the people there have to belong to indoor swim clubs cause it is too cold to swim out of doors.
It's safe to say that NZ isn't going to be a cotton producer, but plants cotton plants in NZ, do produce cotton

Last edited by Joe90; 06-24-2019 at 07:20 PM..
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Old 06-24-2019, 07:24 PM
 
Location: Thionville (Moselle, France)
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Can Eureka be considered as Csb (mild-summer Mediterranean climate)? If so, it would be some kind of submediterranean climate, and as a result, sub-subtropical! lol

What I find utterly fantastic with California, is the possibility to have (in Eureka for example, but things are even more exacerbated southwards), 25°C+ each month of the year, whatever the season, and the February absolute max. higher than the July one! :O

Other parts of coastal Cali' also post figures above 30°C in winter, and sometimes, on a few years (especially recently!), the region struggles to post warm temperatures in June/July.

Is this the conflict "June Gloom" vs. "wintry Santa Ana winds"? Thanks for responding.

I love California for everything it has!!! <3
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