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Old 07-06-2012, 09:02 AM
 
Location: Northern Wisconsin
10,379 posts, read 10,915,269 times
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It really is amazing to see almost the whole US in a drought. US Drought monitor web site has records and you can go back 10 years, and see that there are no other summers like this.
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Old 07-06-2012, 09:17 AM
 
Location: Laurentia
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cambium View Post
You cannot compare one farm area to another... lets factor in some of these below and you might rethink that statement.[...]
Of course there are many factors that go into plant growth besides water, but just because it's understood doesn't mean it isn't a curiosity.

Quote:
And believe me, I see what 7 days of 90s and no rain does to mine, you cant go by an entire years worth of rain...You have to look at it from a week to week basis.
To clarify, I was assuming when I typed that that the proportions of rain are close to normal, i.e. a sustained lower-than-normal rainfall. If you have a deluge in winter and spring and no rain at all in summer that averages out to near normal, then it's the "unevenness" of the rainfall that's the problem (more so than the raw yearly rainfall), and a long dry spell is a problem because the plants in those regions aren't adapted for it. In this case, it's Cfa plants, as opposed to Cwa or Csa plants which can go for 5 months without rain with no problem.

As you know, I hate heat and sunshine as much or more than everyone here, and that kind of drought is very bad. Still, it's the heat and sun that I find wrong with that condition, not the dryness. Cool and dry is optimal, plus less rain is needed for the plants when it's cool as opposed to hot anyway. Cool/dry and cloudy (what I like) is even better, because the sunlight evaporates the soil moisture.

I know the heat and the dry spells put a lot of stress on plants, but a plant that starts shriveling after only 7 days of those conditions sounds like a weak plant to me. It certainly wouldn't make it in Texas (of course it's not like heat and drought is common in Connecticut like it is in Texas so I can understand if you don't practice drought-resistant gardening).

EDIT: Your garden looks perfectly healthy to me. I don't see anything wrong with it. Is there something else you've noticed aside from the overt appearance? Anyway, ignore the previous paragraph. To me drought stress isn't significant until plants start to turn brown and become "sickly".

As long as there's enough water for people to drink, bathe, and cook (without restrictions) and enough water for the plants to survive, I don't think there's a problem.

Previously I was mostly pointing out how drought is so often vastly exaggerated, and how anything except waterlogged ground seems to be considered a problem. As soon as the mud starts to ease off they complain about how dry it's been. Obviously if it's a Texas 2011-style drought that's a huge problem, but I don't see how dry and moderately dusty* soil could hurt any humans or crops, unless you're growing a mangrove tree or something .

Often, as soon as I can walk in my yard with bare feet without getting mud all over them many people whine and cry for more rain to come, when the ground just now became fit for my outdoor activities . That's frustrating.

*"Moderately dusty" means that when you sweep the ground with a broom or kick the ground some dust is kicked up, but not so dusty that there's a dust storm with the slightest wind, or a lot of cracked dirt, or being able to run it down your fingers like an hourglass.

Last edited by Patricius Maximus; 07-06-2012 at 09:38 AM..
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Old 07-06-2012, 09:54 AM
 
Location: Near the Coast SWCT
83,516 posts, read 75,294,816 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Patricius Maximus View Post
If you have a deluge in winter and spring and no rain at all in summer that averages out to near normal, then it's the "unevenness" of the rainfall that's the problem (more so than the raw yearly rainfall), and a long dry spell is a problem because the plants in those regions aren't adapted for it. In this case, it's Cfa plants, as opposed to Cwa or Csa plants which can go for 5 months without rain with no problem.
There's another definition of "Uneven" watering but I wont get into the specifics of that, but yeah, you can have 100" of water in the winter but if you have 90s and 100s in the summer and no rain, your crops will be affected. Thats why snow cover and snow melt is KEY for a great Spring crop. Cover protect the soil from drying and the melt helps keep it moist.

Quote:
I know the heat and the dry spells put a lot of stress on plants, but a plant that starts shriveling after only 7 days of those conditions sounds like a weak plant to me
lol. Better choice of words would be "sounds like a plant which cant retain water or always needs water".. For instance, Cucumbers.. 2 days in 95 degrees and no rain the leaves start to wilt. They get thirsty fast! Peppers.. they can go 1 week without rain and 90s. They love heat and dry soil.

Quote:
Your garden looks perfectly healthy to me. I don't see anything wrong with it. Is there something else you've noticed aside from the overt appearance?
Wilting and drying out but very very minor. Remember, I got over half foot of rain in June and it was a cool one! And its been humid lately. Thats why my garden looks good. But dryness is the easiest issue to fix, all you need is water. But if you get spots, yellowing, or BER or falling flowers, your luck is running out. Did you know most tomatoes do not bloom in the 90s? That means no yeilds if the temps are constantly in the 90s.

Quote:
As long as there's enough water for people to drink, bathe, and cook (without restrictions) and enough water for the plants to survive, I don't think there's a problem.
Everything we eat comes from a farm one way or another, so definetly needs to be enough water for crops.

Quote:
I don't see how dry and moderately dusty soil could hurt any humans or crops, unless you're growing a mangrove tree or something .
LOL.. For humans..aside from a dust storm and wind kicking up dust or mowing the dusty lawn its fine but for crops??

Dry Soil: No roots, no plants.


Moist Soil:


Roots of a tree: Not only water is retained in the trunk and branches but the roots are deep enough to transport any moisture.


Roots of corn. Speaks for itself. Doesnt go deep, can dry out fast.



I believe now people will understand why 7 days will do it.
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Old 07-06-2012, 02:34 PM
 
Location: Laurentia
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cambium View Post
Wilting and drying out but very very minor.
I see.

Quote:
But if you get spots, yellowing, or BER or falling flowers, your luck is running out.
Obviously. That's a bit more severe than just getting a brown tinge on your leaves.

Quote:
Everything we eat comes from a farm one way or another, so definetly needs to be enough water for crops.
A quote from myself:

Quote:
As long as there's enough water for people to drink, bathe, and cook (without restrictions) and enough water for the plants to survive, I don't think there's a problem.
Last I checked crops were considered to be in the plant category. Also take note that "surviving" is distinct from "in perfect condition". Farmers have gotten enough of a yield in moderate droughts to feed everyone many times in the past.

Quote:
LOL.. For humans..aside from a dust storm and wind kicking up dust or mowing the dusty lawn its fine but for crops??
Well, not quite that dusty . I'm talking about enough dust to kick a little up but not enough to create a severe dust storm or cause a huge cloud to emerge from your mower. I'll show a few pictures to explain.

This is what you're talking about, and this is too dusty:



This is closer to what I'm thinking about - see, not muddy but definitely not bone-dry. Sometimes I've seen this sort of soil when they're whining about a drought (albeit no more than moderate):



Or even better, this is a good example of what I'm talking about with "moderately dusty":



See: not muddy, moderately dusty, but no cracked earth or desertification . This is what I'm talking about with exaggerated droughts - as soon as the ground goes from muddy to something I can actually walk on without having to take a bath when I get in, they proclaim severe drought.

I'm definitely suited for a drier climate. Perpetual mud isn't my cup of tea. 15 inches of rain per year isn't considered to be a drought where it's normal, and justifiably so since the plants there are adapted to that environment. As you pointed out in your post, plants vary quite a bit to their tolerance and even preference towards dryness (there is also such a thing as too much water, as the French found out in 1315).
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Old 07-06-2012, 04:47 PM
 
Location: Near the Coast SWCT
83,516 posts, read 75,294,816 times
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For Patricius Maximus.

Here are my Potatoe plants.. I neglected them not watering for over a week. All we had was a drizzle past 7 days and 90s.. Do they look healthy to you? LOL.

I really dont care at this point about them but I did water them which is why they look wet in the picture.

I need 2 inches of rain a week in the 90s
1" of rain a week in the 80s

I started collecting rain water but didnt store enough. :-(

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Old 07-06-2012, 06:17 PM
 
Location: Charlotte, NC (in my mind)
7,943 posts, read 17,252,682 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Patricius Maximus View Post
It also looks like most of the rest of the States are in drought. I like it better that way myself. I like the dry, dusty, non-muddy ground, and the non-waterlogged, brownish grass and plants (but not too brown; wet enough to be green but not bright green, if you know what I mean). I've looked at some of the stats and for a lot of these drought-stricken places they've gotten enough rain by my standards. It seems like any time the ground dries out enough so that it isn't muddy they say there's a big drought . That said, the rainfall is far below normal and the crops are suffering, both from the heat as well as the drought (if it was dry but chilly (how I like it), I'm sure the dessication would be less severe). I hope that at least the red zones are taken down a notch or two - D0, D1, and D2 can stay there as long as they please .
Much of the trees in Arkansas are already losing their leaves due to it being dry. This sometimes happens, but usually in the latter part of August, not in early July. Everything is usually pretty green in that part of the country this time of year. In Western Arkansas, there really hasn't been substantial rain since March. April, May, and June, which are supposed to be the wet months, were bone dry. Drought also increases temperatures as more of the sun's energy reflects off the dry ground rather than absorbing moisture. Ample rainfall can mean the difference between average highs in the 90s in Arkansas during summer months or the 110s like we saw last year and will likely see this year if substantial rain doesn't come soon.
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Old 07-06-2012, 09:53 PM
 
Location: Near the Coast SWCT
83,516 posts, read 75,294,816 times
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UNL | News Release | U.S. Drought Monitor shows record-breaking expanse of drought

"More of the United States is in moderate drought or worse than at any other time in the 12-year history of the U.S. Drought Monitor,"

NWS UPN
" UPPER AIR PATTERN UNFORTUNATELY REMAINS SIMILAR TO RECENT 2005 DROUGHT WITH WEAK TROUGH JUST TO THE EAST OF MISSISSIPPI RIVER THAT SUPPORTS SUBSIDENCE AND THUS LITTLE OR NO PRECIPITATION FOR AT LEAST THE NEXT 7 DAYS...IF NOT 10+ DAYS. THIS WILL HAVE SIGNIFICANT ADDITIONAL STRESS TO ALREADY DRY AREA CORN AND SOYBEAN CROPS."
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Old 07-15-2012, 08:42 PM
 
Location: Near the Coast SWCT
83,516 posts, read 75,294,816 times
Reputation: 16619
New Data: 2012 Drought Rivals Dust Bowl

It hasnt been this bad since the 1930s and 1950s. More proof we just dont have enough records. (meaning, waiting 60yrs for this extreme might be common)


New Data: 2012 Drought Rivals Dust Bowl - weather.com





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Old 07-16-2012, 05:32 AM
 
Location: Laurentia
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The 55% they have now is chump change compared to the 80% during the Dust Bowl. I had no idea that drought was that widespread.
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Old 07-16-2012, 11:19 AM
 
833 posts, read 1,714,065 times
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I have raked 3 huge bags of fallen leaves from a very small area of my back yard.

When that happens, I know we ( north Arkansas) are in a severe drought as I never had raked leaves in mid July before.
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