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Interesting to get the perspective of a Brookings local, and keen gardner at that.
Most of the plant species mentioned, are ones that grow here without difficulty.
Interesting read, but am having a hard time figuring out what type of climate they mean exactly. Warm temperate is subtropical, no? It seems to me the person writing was describing a highland tropical climate, particularly the quote about this warm temperate climate existing on the Big Island of Hawaii, but I find their description of warm temperate rather conflicted.
This quote from the post confused me: "Some warm temperate climates are essentially frost-free. Others can get surprising cold on occasion into the mid to low twenties, perhaps even the upper teens. But winter sun and warm summer rain ensure that soil temperatures never fall below 60F for very long something found on the West Coast only within about 100 miles of the Mexican border. Think of the horticultural possibilities (without even watering much in the summer)"..........Who needs the subtropics?"
This blogger seems to say that warm temperate is not subtropical, something I find very confusing. Soil temps going below 60f happen the entire winter in coastal S. California, hence no coconut palms. I very much doubt your soil temps stay above 60f given your climate. This site for Wellington shows soil temps are below 60f from late April until late September, almost half the year. The climate this person is referencing is not the climate you live in, or am I missing something?
I don't see the distinction between warm temperate and subtropical. Highland Hawaii is subtropical for sure. Northern New Zealand is sub-tropical. The Atherton tableland of Australia has a rainfall minima, so they can't mean evenly distributed rainfall all year.
I find the post totally confusing climate wise. Are they describing a Med climate with the rainfall season reversed? Or just any warm climate with summer rainfall?
btw, I looked up some of those plants and according to the web are listed as zone 10a to 11, which is quite a bit warmer than where you are. So either those plants are more cold hardy, or you live in a climate like Miami, lol. I'll bet there are people growing all those plants and more somewhere on the west coast of the US. Given the temp profile of where you are, many areas on the US west coast are warmer in winter. If you look at Brookings, OR compared to Wellington, NZ, they are almost identical temp wise.
I'm curious why those plants grow in your area, with winter minimum temps in the 20'sf, and not Brookings, Eureka, San Francisco, San Rafael, San Jose, etc? You always seemed to state that summer warmth doesn't matter as much as winter cold. Well Brookings is warmer than where you are. If it is irrigation that is needed (such as San Rafael), that would also be needed in many of the other warm temperate climates mentioned such as Atherton, AU as they have seasons with minimal rainfall, but warm temps.
To be honest, I'm just not sure exactly what type of climate they are decribing here. Places on the east coast of NC are warm temperate, and the winter low gets down into the upper teens, low 20's on occasion, so that climate described does exist in the US.
Interesting read, but am having a hard time figuring out what type of climate they mean exactly. Warm temperate is subtropical, no? It seems to me the person writing was describing a highland tropical climate, particularly the quote about this warm temperate climate existing on the Big Island of Hawaii, but I find their description of warm temperate rather conflicted.
This quote from the post confused me: "Some warm temperate climates are essentially frost-free. Others can get surprising cold on occasion into the mid to low twenties, perhaps even the upper teens. But winter sun and warm summer rain ensure that soil temperatures never fall below 60F for very long something found on the West Coast only within about 100 miles of the Mexican border. Think of the horticultural possibilities (without even watering much in the summer)"..........Who needs the subtropics?"
This blogger seems to say that warm temperate is not subtropical, something I find very confusing. Soil temps going below 60f happen the entire winter in coastal S. California, hence no coconut palms. I very much doubt your soil temps stay above 60f given your climate. This site for Wellington shows soil temps are below 60f from late April until late September, almost half the year. The climate this person is referencing is not the climate you live in, or am I missing something?
I don't see the distinction between warm temperate and subtropical. Highland Hawaii is subtropical for sure. Northern New Zealand is sub-tropical. The Atherton tableland of Australia has a rainfall minima, so they can't mean evenly distributed rainfall all year.
I find the post totally confusing climate wise. Are they describing a Med climate with the rainfall season reversed? Or just any warm climate with summer rainfall?
btw, I looked up some of those plants and according to the web are listed as zone 10a to 11, which is quite a bit warmer than where you are. So either those plants are more cold hardy, or you live in a climate like Miami, lol. I'll bet there are people growing all those plants and more somewhere on the west coast of the US. Given the temp profile of where you are, many areas on the US west coast are warmer in winter. If you look at Brookings, OR compared to Wellington, NZ, they are almost identical temp wise.
I'm curious why those plants grow in your area, with winter minimum temps in the 20'sf, and not Brookings, Eureka, San Francisco, San Rafael, San Jose, etc? You always seemed to state that summer warmth doesn't matter as much as winter cold. Well Brookings is warmer than where you are. If it is irrigation that is needed (such as San Rafael), that would also be needed in many of the other warm temperate climates mentioned such as Atherton, AU as they have seasons with minimal rainfall, but warm temps.
To be honest, I'm just not sure exactly what type of climate they are decribing here. Places on the east coast of NC are warm temperate, and the winter low gets down into the upper teens, low 20's on occasion, so that climate described does exist in the US.
I think warm temperate is a vague term, although it has been used in NZ to describe the top half of the North Island, which is noticeably warmer than here. It seems to be a term used in Australia as well.
I did say most of those plants grow here, rather than all of them. Certainly all of the palms listed would grow in S.F and San Jose. I am also curious as to why those palms don't grow in Brookings, when they do grow here. My feeling is that Brookings is a similar climate to the South Island west coast, which which is Oceanic in the truest meaning of the word- fully exposed to strong coastal winds, and far more moderated by the sea. That is a double edged sword -warmer minimums/colder maximums. Quite different to here, which while coastal, is a sheltered, rather than exposed coast. Still conditions, with reasonable sunshine hours, are typical winter conditions, and which plants love. Winter rain is generally a warm weather event, and plants respond quickly to it.
About half of the coastal zone around here is a 10a, which while having warmer minimums than the flatter inhabited areas, does not translate into a climate able to support more tender species. Among areas that have minimums only separated by a few degrees, it is the extra heat that makes makes the difference.
One more point, is that I don't pay too much attention to zones. If a plant thrives, that is all that matters.
ve some discrepancies. I do not think that the Trewartha classification made some crucial updates. I think it did a good job making WA and OR have another climate classification than CA. But still it didn't solve the many other problems, especially in Western Europe or lets say the problem of Istanbul. While Koeppen classified it as Cfa, Trewartha downgraded it to a Csa. On Wikipedia, they say it is a borderline climate, Turkey considers it as a Marmara transitional climate between humid oceanic and mediterranean, in Germany, Istanbul is regarded as having a See climate (oceanic)...I do not understand what is wrong with all this. What I disagree with the current classification schemes is the fact that the number of precipitation days is disregarded in the study. Even if a city has less than 30mm precipitation in any summer month but with a decent number of precipitation days, it is so far classified as Csa. I disagree with it for the fact that 5 to 7 precipitation days in summer (e.g. Portland, Istanbul) makes a big difference with 0 or 1 precipitation day (eg. LA, Athens, Beirut). Why is Portland a Cf and Istanbul a Cs, although Istanbul has in all its summer months a precipitation amount greater than 30 mm per month. Due to heavy urbanization and climate change, it seems it is raining much less in summer, so I think this was the reason for changing the classification.
All this needs to be looked up again. I hope they will come up very soon with a very meticulous and more detailed classification scheme that would solve those contradictions and ambiguities and take into consideration climate change.
I vote neither. Still, I think the Koeppen- Geiger is still better than the Trewartha.
ve some discrepancies. I do not think that the Trewartha classification made some crucial updates. I think it did a good job making WA and OR have another climate classification than CA. But still it didn't solve the many other problems, especially in Western Europe or lets say the problem of Istanbul. While Koeppen classified it as Cfa, Trewartha downgraded it to a Csa. On Wikipedia, they say it is a borderline climate, Turkey considers it as a Marmara transitional climate between humid oceanic and mediterranean, in Germany, Istanbul is regarded as having a See climate (oceanic)...I do not understand what is wrong with all this. What I disagree with the current classification schemes is the fact that the number of precipitation days is disregarded in the study. Even if a city has less than 30mm precipitation in any summer month but with a decent number of precipitation days, it is so far classified as Csa. I disagree with it for the fact that 5 to 7 precipitation days in summer (e.g. Portland, Istanbul) makes a big difference with 0 or 1 precipitation day (eg. LA, Athens, Beirut). Why is Portland a Cf and Istanbul a Cs, although Istanbul has in all its summer months a precipitation amount greater than 30 mm per month. Due to heavy urbanization and climate change, it seems it is raining much less in summer, so I think this was the reason for changing the classification.
All this needs to be looked up again. I hope they will come up very soon with a very meticulous and more detailed classification scheme that would solve those contradictions and ambiguities and take into consideration climate change.
I vote neither. Still, I think the Koeppen- Geiger is still better than the Trewartha.
Koppen would have considered Istanbul Cfa, because of the high summer temperatures and the moderately high rainfall, he paid little consideration to the type of rainfall.
Trewarttha would have changed it, because he considered Istanbul's rainfall to be fundamentally different to that of Cfa climates - not directly from humid tropical sources.
I don't think Istanbul could be considered Oceanic. It's summer rainfall would need to be mostly just a continuation of it's yearly rainfall type, which I don't think is the case.
Portland under Trewartha has a D climate, which is the same as NYC. That makes even less sense than Koppen's system, as Portland has more in common with California, than the east coast.
What wiki says about istanbul's rainfall totals is wrong. It has to be updated.
According to wiki Istanbul is more like humid subtropical than Med due to high rainfall amount in summer months.
But In reallity It becomes more and more dry in summer months as I said another thread, there is no 5 to 7 rainy days in summer months except june(One year rainless another year 5 or 7 days maybe more or less rainy days)
In Turkey there are two definitions of Istanbul's climate
one is cool type of med climate(cool represents winter temps)
Another one is briefly a transition climate between oceanic, med and continental.
What wiki says about istanbul's rainfall totals is wrong. It has to be updated.
According to wiki Istanbul is more like humid subtropical than Med due to high rainfall amount in summer months.
But In reallity It becomes more and more dry in summer months as I said another thread, there is no 5 to 7 rainy days in summer months except june(One year rainless another year 5 or 7 days maybe more or less rainy days)
In Turkey there are two definitions of Istanbul's climate
one is cool type of med climate(cool represents winter temps)
Another one is briefly a transition climate between oceanic, med and continental.
Istanbulmert,
Where is the updated version of Istanbul's rainfall amount and rainy days?
The one on wikipedia is the same one from your country's meteorological station mgm.gov.tr, check it here: Y
Trewartha is rather good, but the fact that it classifies the northern half of overly cool/mild NZ as 'subtropical' and Melbourne (with a mild winter/warm summer) under 'temperate' is rather bizarre.
Sure, Melbourne is not subtropical, but the northern island is? Come on...BOTH are temperate.
Istanbulmert,
Where is the updated version of Istanbul's rainfall amount and rainy days?
The one on wikipedia is the same one from your country's meteorological station mgm.gov.tr, check it here: Y
Are you sure that u looked up the right site. Coz wiki page and my countrys site say diffrent things in terms of rainfall
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