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Old 10-23-2007, 05:14 PM
 
Location: Metro Milwaukee, WI
3,198 posts, read 12,671,044 times
Reputation: 2241

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Quote:
Originally Posted by tahiti View Post
this post piqued my curiousity and my love of google ...

I'm searching for my area for snow, but here's something that, to me, clearly shows the average daily temp rising over the past 130 or so years:



off to (hopefully) find snowfall!
Thanks for the post, tahiti.

However, again, this is NOT meant to be a Global Warming theory thread. I am talking WINTERS only! Your graph is showing year-round stuff.

Beyond that, I have to admit to being really curious as to the source of your graph. If you don't mind, could you site the link / source? That might be helpful in looking at stats for various regions.

Thanks!
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Old 10-23-2007, 05:21 PM
 
Location: Hopewell New Jersey
1,398 posts, read 7,689,239 times
Reputation: 1069
Quote:
Originally Posted by tahiti View Post
this post piqued my curiousity and my love of google ...

I'm searching for my area for snow, but here's something that, to me, clearly shows the average daily temp rising over the past 130 or so years:



off to (hopefully) find snowfall!
Interesting graph. I notice that about 1929 the big change happened....let's see...what happened in 1929...Ah yes...stock market crash and construction of the Empire State building...

Coincidence ??...I don't think so !!
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Old 10-23-2007, 07:14 PM
smh
 
53 posts, read 280,025 times
Reputation: 32
Very interesting topic. I, too, remember more snow as a kid than we have now, but also figured that it was selective memory. Still, there are childhood photos of me at several different ages posing next to my newly-built snowman, but I can recall only a couple of photos of my own kids.

With my curiosity piqued, I found this chart from the National Weather Service. I'd be interested to know what y'all make of it. I'd call the mid 50s to the mid 60s my "playing in the snow years" and the stats seem to bear out the fact that there were heavier snowfalls during those years than there are now. It's been over 20 years since we've had 5" or more total during the winter, but it looks like those years came along more frequently back in the 30s and 40s.

Also, there seem to have been more years lately with only a trace of snow. It's never been uncommon to go an entire winter without snow, but it seems to happen a bit more frequently.

All in all, it doesn't look like there have been radical winter weather changes. But it does confirm that my childhood years were some of the snowiest!

DFW - Monthly and Seasonal Snowfall (http://www.srh.noaa.gov/fwd/CLIMO/dfw/annual/dmosnow.html - broken link)
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Old 10-24-2007, 06:57 AM
 
Location: NJ
12,283 posts, read 35,581,650 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JBrown View Post
Interesting graph. I notice that about 1929 the big change happened....let's see...what happened in 1929...Ah yes...stock market crash and construction of the Empire State building...

Coincidence ??...I don't think so !!
nah, it's because it's the year my dad was born - lots of hot air, that one
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Old 10-24-2007, 06:58 AM
 
Location: NJ
12,283 posts, read 35,581,650 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EnjoyEP View Post
Thanks for the post, tahiti.

However, again, this is NOT meant to be a Global Warming theory thread. I am talking WINTERS only! Your graph is showing year-round stuff.

Beyond that, I have to admit to being really curious as to the source of your graph. If you don't mind, could you site the link / source? That might be helpful in looking at stats for various regions.

Thanks!

Yeah, I know it doesn't show winters, I need to to more searching! I thought it was interesting though. I'll post the source in another message, I'm on another PC right now and don't have the link here.
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Old 10-24-2007, 07:24 AM
 
Location: NJ
12,283 posts, read 35,581,650 times
Reputation: 5330
Quote:
Originally Posted by EnjoyEP View Post
Thanks for the post, tahiti.

However, again, this is NOT meant to be a Global Warming theory thread. I am talking WINTERS only! Your graph is showing year-round stuff.

Beyond that, I have to admit to being really curious as to the source of your graph. If you don't mind, could you site the link / source? That might be helpful in looking at stats for various regions.

Thanks!
ok, here's a link to year over year snowfall in central park:



i got this and the other link from here:

New York Central Park Yearly Temperature, Precipitation, and Snowfall Graphs - i'm guessing is this a guy who likes to plot stuff he cites his sources.
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Old 10-24-2007, 09:17 AM
 
Location: Earth Wanderer, longing for the stars.
12,406 posts, read 18,902,399 times
Reputation: 8910
Quote:
Originally Posted by tahiti View Post
this post piqued my curiousity and my love of google ...

I'm searching for my area for snow, but here's something that, to me, clearly shows the average daily temp rising over the past 130 or so years:



off to (hopefully) find snowfall!
Thank you for posting this.

You know, the thought has occurred to me that we could offer 'selective memory' as an excuse all the way to the actual demise of life on our planet. When you don't believe the bulk of the scientists, and you don't believe the preponderance of facts, and you don't even believe the input to your own senses, perhaps you are half gone already.

A person (or a group, as in here) can rationalize their way out of anything, it seems. You really have to wonder where these people are coming from, to seem to formulate such a group effort at denial, denial, denial.

Meanwhile, we are choking the planet.
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Old 10-24-2007, 11:07 AM
 
Location: So. Dak.
13,495 posts, read 37,323,200 times
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WE definitely need to be stewards of our planet, but let's stay on topic about the snowfall. Any global warming debates will be moved to Politics and OTHER CONTROVERSIES. All the OP is asking for is charts with comparison snowfalls.
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Old 10-24-2007, 11:30 AM
 
Location: E ND & NW MN
4,818 posts, read 10,956,590 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EnjoyEP View Post
Folks...we have a correct answer!

Synopsis said this better than I ever could have. Very well said Synopsis, and I think you hit the nail on the head.

Hi Enjoy EP

I am a forecaster with the Natl Weather Service up in Grand Forks ND and have been reading the thread with interest. But I wanted to let you know I agree with your posts so far. It is very important for people to realize that snowfall is a measured thing done by humans and different climatology weather stations set up throughout the nation (generally known as cooperative stations). Now since it is a human measured thing and since stations do move around...there is some error to be invovled. It can be very difficult to measure snowfall. I do know up here in the Red River valley the wind makes snowfall measuring very very difficult. 9.5....10.3 8.0 heck who can tell sometimes. The Natl Climatic Data Center in Asheville NC is the clearing house nationwide for all climate data....meaning that all station temp/pcpn and other data are sent to them and then they QC it (i.e. compare it to other stations) and then adjusted as needed. The end result is what you get when you look up snowfall data and other weather records on the web usually. Now for our red river valley and MN area there are distinct periods when snowfall was higher than others....you got the period from late 60s through the early 80s when many areas had above normal snowfall (not every year but majority of those). Then you had some sporadic years in the mid to late 90s... Who can forget up here the historic winter of 96-97 which was the snowiest on record for Fargo and Grand Forks.

Here is some info from Minneapolis and St Paul....


10 HEAVIEST SEASONAL SNOWFALLS / 10 LIGHTEST snowfalls
* ------------------------------ / ------------------------------ *
* INCHES / INCHES *
* 1. 1983-84 ....... 98.6 / 1. 1930-31 ....... 14.2 *
* 2. 1981-82 ....... 95.0 / 2. 1894-95 ....... 16.2 *
* 3. 1950-51 ....... 88.9 / 3. 1986-87 ....... 17.4 *
* 4. 1916-17 ....... 84.9 / 4. 1967-68 ....... 17.5 *
* 5. 1991-92 ....... 84.1 / 5. 1958-59 ....... 19.1 *
* 6. 1961-62 ....... 81.3 / 6. 1920-21 ....... 20.6 *
* 7. 1951-52 ....... 79.0 / 7. 1980-81 ....... 21.1 *
* 8. 1966-67 ....... 78.4 / 8. 1957-58 ....... 21.2 *
* 9. 2000-01 ....... 75.8 / 9. 1901-02 ....... 22.4 *
* 10. 1982-83 ....... 74.4 / 10. 1913-14 ....... 22.5


If you would look majority of those years with heaviest snowfall have been in the past 50 years....so one might say we have had more snowfall than our ancestors did (if you live in the MSP area).

It is very important to realize that snowfall (like rain from thunderstorms) can vary greatly in a short distance. All it takes is one big storm particularly in an area that receives little snowfall to skew results. If you live in a place that averages 20 inches a snow a year and you have zero snow in December and January and 25 inches in February then the winter stats will show you with above normal snowfall for that winter period....but in reality will the person feel that way.

Sorry for the rambling....but my idea to get across is that history of records would indicate variations in climate and storm tracks each winter season and at least for parts of MN and ND (and probably for other areas of the country). You might have grown up in some snow years with above normal snowfall....but to get average you must have some below normal years too.

Dan GF ND
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Old 10-24-2007, 07:44 PM
 
Location: So. Dak.
13,495 posts, read 37,323,200 times
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Dan, thank you for always having such good info. I was actually considering finding you and DM-ing you again for your expert opinion. Some of your years of heavy snowfall seem to coincide with mine except I don't have the facts or figures like you do. 1962 was a very snowy year for us and so was 1968/1969.

Would you be able to find out the amount of snowfall for your area in 1996/1997? Also, the amount for that season for southeastern So. Dak? It seemed like it snowed every other day that year so I was surprised it wasn't on the list.
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