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Old 12-21-2012, 06:20 AM
 
Location: Laurentia
5,593 posts, read 7,216,714 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Galaxyman View Post
If we start calling places in Canada subtropical, then we may as well re-classify Melbourne as Equatorial while we are at it.
They're not talking about present climate . Toronto becoming part of the Cfa zone goes with a global warming scenario where Southern Ontario has a climate more like the Ohio River valley (i.e. much milder in winter).
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Old 12-21-2012, 07:01 AM
 
Location: Melbourne Australia
777 posts, read 950,718 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Patricius Maximus View Post
They're not talking about present climate . Toronto becoming part of the Cfa zone goes with a global warming scenario where Southern Ontario has a climate more like the Ohio River valley (i.e. much milder in winter).
Just some more global warming bullcrap being spruiked by those stupid enough to believe in this government scam.
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Old 12-21-2012, 07:13 AM
 
Location: Gatineau, Québec
25,050 posts, read 32,179,057 times
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We should not forget though that Toronto has never really been that snowy a place to begin with. And places south of Toronto like London and Kitchener-Waterloo are actually quite a bit snowier than Toronto. The central part of Toronto especially is actually quite dry in winter and has something of a localized phenomenon going on I am pretty sure.

Of course there is a general warming trend going on, but this does not mean that Toronto does not get snow anymore and will no longer get any in the foreseeable future.

January 2012 was an extremely exceptional month (in Toronto and many other places too) and it is odd that people are talking about it as if it was the "new normal" for winter.
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Old 12-21-2012, 07:35 AM
 
585 posts, read 1,526,757 times
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Are people aware the the Arborday.org's 2006 already classified part of Erie PA and Cleveland OH zone 7 ?

I almost missed it !

Here's the link:
The Arbor Day Foundation

Then go to the link: Download the High Resolution TIF of this map.

Important: This is what I missed and perhaps most people missed/will miss ...
(1) After you down loaded the map, use your mouse to expand the map (double click does NOT expand the map, you will need to use your finger to roll the "wheel" to expand it)
(2) After expanding the map, use your mouse to drag it to Ohio/PA; Then continue to expand the map as in (1)
(3) Opps, suddenly a small portion of Erie PA and Cleveland OH turns YELLOW (zone 7) instead of green (zone 6).

Erie PA & Cleveland OH (both places are on the South shore of Lake Erie) are similar to NYC.

I know this thread talks about southern Ontario but Erie and Cleveland are good examples of the warming trend South of Lake Erie.

As for Toronto, my projection: No white Xmas again this year !

Last edited by Snowbird100; 12-21-2012 at 08:06 AM..
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Old 12-21-2012, 08:26 AM
 
585 posts, read 1,526,757 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deneb78 View Post
I've been hearing a lot in the news here about the warmest weather for 2012 here in Canada for many decades.. and I personally believe it's a trend to warmer weather.
I checked out the winter averages for some places in Southern Ontario and it seems that with winters losing their snowpack and a trend towards much milder temperatures... it seems some parts of Southern Ontario are gradually becoming humid subtropical over time.

Check out these stations for January 2012 - the averages look much closer to what you might see in NYC or Boston on average vs. the averages for Southern Ontario

Windsor, ON

Daily Data | Canada's National Climate Archive


Toronto Airport, ON

Daily Data | Canada's National Climate Archive


Downtown Toronto, ON

Daily Data | Canada's National Climate Archive


What are your thoughts?
Wow, downtown Toronto is warmer than Windsor On based on Jan 2012 data (Toronto Int Airport is a bit colder than Windsor).

If the trend continues, S Ont might become the transitional zone or hardiness zone 7 !
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Old 12-21-2012, 11:11 AM
 
Location: New York City
2,789 posts, read 5,911,184 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Patricius Maximus View Post
As a cold lover, however, I'll say that the Earth is unbalanced towards warm climates enough as it is, and if any change is needed in climate it's colder, not warmer; a glacial period climate provides a good balance (notwithstanding the socioeconomic impact).
No. Human population is unbalanced towards warm climates. There are vast stretches of land north of 55 degrees latitude (60 degrees in Europe) that are easily cold enough for any cold lover. However few people live in northern Russia or northern Canada, Mongolia, Scandinavia, Kazakhstan etc. I'm not even talking about Greenland or Antarctica. Cold countries just have very low population densities. Arctic territories don't have any real cities - with very few exceptions it's just mining towns, research stations, military bases and indigenous peoples villages.

As an example, Alaska has more than twice the land area of Pakistan but only a tiny fraction of its population.
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Old 12-21-2012, 11:20 AM
 
585 posts, read 1,526,757 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Acajack View Post
We should not forget though that Toronto has never really been that snowy a place to begin with. And places south of Toronto like London and Kitchener-Waterloo are actually quite a bit snowier than Toronto. The central part of Toronto especially is actually quite dry in winter and has something of a localized phenomenon going on I am pretty sure.

Of course there is a general warming trend going on, but this does not mean that Toronto does not get snow anymore and will no longer get any in the foreseeable future.

January 2012 was an extremely exceptional month (in Toronto and many other places too) and it is odd that people are talking about it as if it was the "new normal" for winter.
Toronto is South of the snowbelt, namely Hwy 7 (but I think it might be further S of Hwy 7 such as S of Hwy 401). One of the reasons it's S of the snowbelt is (I think) Toronto is quite far away from Georgian Bay and Lake Huron.

On the other hand, London/Kitchener area is closer to Lake Huron (compared to Toronto), and I think the entire area is wide open too.

As the cold air traveling passes Lake Huron & Georgian Bay, it picks up moist air from the lake/bay, then cycles it until the moist air turns into snow which will become heavier and heavier through the cycling process, and eventually dumping it onto the ground along its path which happens to be in the London/Kitchener area and North of Hwy 7.

By the time the cold air with heavy snow (which is falling) passes hwy 7, there's no snow left S of Hwy 7 or 401 This is what I think Toronto has less snow than other area plus the heat island effect and lake Ontario moderating temps in Toronto which is located right beside lake Ontario, a huge body of water.

I once talked to people N of Hwy 7 about "no white Xmas last year or the year before ...", they said "yes, there is white Xmas every year ...". The reason being I was referring to Toronto proper while they were referring to area N of Hwy 7 (not the city of Toronto).

That's my understanding.

Last edited by Snowbird100; 12-21-2012 at 11:45 AM..
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Old 12-21-2012, 11:21 AM
 
Location: Leeds, UK
22,256 posts, read 26,751,612 times
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Personally, I would love to live in a city like Umea in Sweden - attractive, decent size, with reliably cold and snowy winters.

Helsinki's winters would suit me just fine too, and they appear rather snowy, and that is a city with a metro of 1 million .
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Old 12-21-2012, 11:55 AM
 
Location: New York City
2,789 posts, read 5,911,184 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dunno what to put here View Post
Personally, I would love to live in a city like Umea in Sweden - attractive, decent size, with reliably cold and snowy winters.

Helsinki's winters would suit me just fine too, and they appear rather snowy, and that is a city with a metro of 1 million .
Well Helsinki is still marginally temperate despite the latitude due to how warm Europe as a whole is. Ulmea is really small though perhaps I'm a bit biased being from the NYC metro area.
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Old 12-22-2012, 05:23 AM
 
585 posts, read 1,526,757 times
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I never thought of comparing DOWNTOWN Toronto and Windsor (Jan) but here we go ...

Downtown Toronto vs Windsor: Average high/Average low/Mean (in C)

2012:
2.6-3.8-0.6
2.9-4.7-0.9

2011
-2.1-8.4-5.2
-2.5-8.6-5.6

2010
-1.3-7.0-4.2
-1.2-6.6-3.9

2009
-3.4-10.5-7.0
-3.7-11.8-7.8

2008
2.1-3.8-0.9
1.7-5.1-1.7

2007
1.4-4.7-1.7
1.8-4.6-1.4

2006
4.2-2.01.1
4.9-0.92.0

2005
-1.8-9.0-5.4
-1.1-8.1-4.6

2004
-4.1-11.8-7.9
-2.5-10.7-6.6

2003
-3.1*-10.1*-6.6*
-3.2-9.7-6.5
* = The value displayed is based on incomplete data

- No data for Jan prior to 2003 for downtown Toronto
- Windsor: 1940

It looks like downtown Toronto is just as warm as Windsor if not warmer (heat island effect & lake Ontario)
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