U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Weather
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 12-26-2012, 03:52 PM
 
Location: Niagara Falls, ON
1,218 posts, read 1,269,557 times
Reputation: 1887

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by Acajack View Post
What I think is that some people (especially Canadians) are keen on demonstrating that their climate is not as cold as most people think it is. So there is a bit of climactic denial going on here.
How are we demonstrating that our climate is warmer than most people think? We were discussing that Amherstberg is technically Cfa (according to Koppen's original classification). This doesn't mean we necessarily agree with it.

Growing degree days and summer isothermals are important when classifying climates too... You can't grow certain fruits in Victoria regardless how mild the winters are. Knoxville has a very long, hot growing season - the possibility of closing your pool in the winter is irrelevant.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Acajack View Post
Daytime winter temperatures between freezing and 10C are generally typical of temperate climate, not subtropical unless you are consistently at the higher end of that scale and frequently go above 10C.
Cfa and Cwa are both in Group C: "temperate"

Quote:
Originally Posted by Acajack View Post
As for Oakville vs. Saskatoon, they are on opposite ends of the continental spectrum - Saskatoon having the coldest winter variant and Oakville having one of the milder variants.
This is the point I was trying to make... It's no different than Philadelphia and Dallas having the same classification. Something like "Sub-Continental" would have probably been better to use.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jonsereed View Post
Most people have never heard of the Koppen Gospel , to them the term ''subtropical'' doesn't fit to any part of Ontario no matter what and proclaiming otherwise will only result in labeling said Koppen disciple as mentally challenged or prone to menopausal hot flashes.
Most people think New Zealand is tropical too

Quote:
Originally Posted by dunno what to put here View Post
Do they not have 1981 - 2010 averages in Canada yet?
Not yet. I emailed Environment Canada about this a few months back and they didn't give me a direct answer. It will probably take them a while to update it.

Last edited by Humid Subtropical; 12-26-2012 at 04:24 PM..
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 12-26-2012, 05:50 PM
 
Location: Laurentia
5,593 posts, read 7,216,714 times
Reputation: 2425
As for the normals, I personally prefer 1971-2000 over 1981-2010, since 1971-2000 is closer to the true long-term average. What I'd really like is an average of all data available, like 1890-2012, but oftentimes we can't pick and choose the data, so I take whatever data I can get.
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-29-2012, 04:01 AM
 
Location: SoCal
1,529 posts, read 3,768,023 times
Reputation: 1202
Say what you want but Toronto is still cold.. And it's only December!

Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-29-2012, 04:29 AM
 
Location: Laurentia
5,593 posts, read 7,216,714 times
Reputation: 2425
Eh, it's not all that cold. Cold, yes, but not frigid. Those snow icons are for snow showers, by the way, according to the forecast. Just a persistent light snow. Quite typical for the Great Lakes region.
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-29-2012, 08:51 AM
 
585 posts, read 1,526,757 times
Reputation: 195
Quote:
Originally Posted by burloak View Post
Snowbird, I think your on to something.

Curious, I checked Environment Canada website and looked at January data for
warmest places in southern Ontario.
Keep in mind data available is old 1971-2000 normals.

I think more areas of southern Ontario in the fututre will meet Koppens -3c
coldest month mean temp threshold.

Here are a few examples:

Burlington avg jan high -0.9c avg jan low -8.6c mean -4.8c

Chatham avg jan high -0.3c avg jan low -7.0c mean -3.7c

Niagara Falls avg jan high -0.4c avg jan low -7.9c mean -4.2c

Port Dhousie avg jan high -0.6c avg jan low -7.1c mean -3.9c
St. Catharines avg jan high -0.5c avg jan low -7.7c mean -4.1c

Hamilton** avg jan high -0.4c avg jan low -6.8c mean -3.6c **downtown weather station

Toronto** avg jan high -1.1c avg jan low -7.3c mean -4.2c **downtown weather station

Windsor avg jan high -0.9 avg jan low -8.1c mean -4.5c
Out of curiousity, I checked out Hamilton (airport, not downtown) from 2001-2011 (11 years)
Jan mean Environment Canada:
2011 -0.8
2010 -5.5
2009 -9.5
2008 -2.4
2007 -3.5
2006 +0.1
2005 -6.7
2004 -9.7
2003 -8.8
2002 -1.1
2001 -4.7
Jan mean (11 years): -4.78

Where can I find the downtown Hamilton data from 2001-2011 or 2012 ?

Last edited by Snowbird100; 12-29-2012 at 09:11 AM..
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-29-2012, 08:59 AM
 
585 posts, read 1,526,757 times
Reputation: 195
Quote:
Originally Posted by Snowbird100 View Post
We are getting there ...

Environment Canada Downtown Toronto (St Catharines/Niagara Falls are warmer than Toronto):
Jan mean:
2012 -0.6C <-- Subtropical
2011 -5.2C
2010 -4.2C
2009 -7.0C
2008 -0.9C <-- Subtropical
2007 -1.7C <-- Subtropical
2006 +1.1C Yes, it's a PLUS, not a typo <-- Subtropical
2005 -5.4C
2004 -7.9C
2003 -6.6C

I couldn't find data for St Catharines/Niagara Falls.

The trend seems to move us to a transition subtropical zone
Downtown Toronto from 2003-2012 (10 years) Jan mean: -3.42C

Last edited by Snowbird100; 12-29-2012 at 09:08 AM..
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-29-2012, 09:08 AM
 
585 posts, read 1,526,757 times
Reputation: 195
I used data from Environment Canada for downtown Toronto from 1971-2000 (30 years) and from 2003-2012 (10 years):
Downtown Toronto Jan mean (40 years from 1971-2012 excluding 2001-2002 no data): -4.005C

In summary, from 2003-2012 (10 years): Jan mean -3.42C

We are getting to the -3C threshold soon

Is it fair to begin to say "Downtown Toronto is shy of 0.42C to be technically subtropical" ?

Last edited by Snowbird100; 12-29-2012 at 10:34 AM..
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-29-2012, 01:16 PM
 
Location: Niagara Falls, ON
1,218 posts, read 1,269,557 times
Reputation: 1887
Quote:
Originally Posted by yowps3 View Post
Say what you want but Toronto is still cold.. And it's only December!
That picture shows only 7 days of temps during a cold front. It is practically January (Toronto's coldest month) and cold fronts are common

The temps are projected to increase next week

14 Day Trend: Toronto, Ontario - The Weather Network
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-29-2012, 04:01 PM
 
Location: Laurentia
5,593 posts, read 7,216,714 times
Reputation: 2425
Take the warm spells and the cold spells and divide them by 2 and you get the climatic averages, which is definitely continental, though it's not deep within the continental zone the way Winnipeg is.
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-29-2012, 08:46 PM
 
641 posts, read 924,998 times
Reputation: 522
Quote:
Originally Posted by Snowbird100 View Post
I used data from Environment Canada for downtown Toronto from 1971-2000 (30 years) and from 2003-2012 (10 years):
Downtown Toronto Jan mean (40 years from 1971-2012 excluding 2001-2002 no data): -4.005C

In summary, from 2003-2012 (10 years): Jan mean -3.42C

We are getting to the -3C threshold soon

Is it fair to begin to say "Downtown Toronto is shy of 0.42C to be technically subtropical" ?
That's cool....or shud I say warm

I bet downtown Hamilton MUN LAB weather station data for same period would
be even warmer
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:


Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Weather

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2021, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Contact Us - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37 - Top